What Jazz are you listening to now?

[Beef Oven!]

Interesting, but So What?

Not sure what you mean by this.

Jazz recordings, obviously are one (the?) main way Jazz music is disseminated, but ultimately a little disappointing in that they are a snap shot of one moment in time of the improvisatory sequences, and these sequences can become too familiar with repeated plays.

I suppose that’s a matter of individual preference. One of the great things about, say, the albums of Led Zeppelin, is that each one is a snapshot in time of where the band was at, rather than some defining moment for constant reference.

I would say that the music doesn’t become too familiar, rather our mode of listening could be repetitious.

I think the Kind of Blue Album may have included some alternate takes, and certainly the Charlie Parker albums published a large number of takes of the same piece.

Alternate takes are the bane of re-iisues! When I rip a CD to my iTunes library, I un-check all the alternate takes! Purely a personal thing and completely subjective.

[Quarky]

Not sure what you mean by this.



I suppose that’s a matter of individual preference. One of the great things about, say, the albums of Led Zeppelin, is that each one is a snapshot in time of where the band was at, rather than some defining moment for constant reference.

I would say that the music doesn’t become too familiar, rather our mode of listening could be repetitious.





Alternate takes are the bane of re-iisues! When I rip a CD to my iTunes library, I un-check all the alternate takes! Purely a personal thing and completely subjective.

So What? was my feeble effort at a joke, as I heard So What? on River of Music Sunday morning, and this prompted my "thought".

OK, folks don't like alternate takes. I can live with that.

What has since taken my imagination, and to which I intend to listen once more at least, is this week's Coltrane episode of Jazz Now. There was a comment that people went to see 'Trane when he visited UK, and walked out disappointed, in that he sounded nothing like they expected. In my book, that should be a matter for renewed interest, in that there was more to 'Trane than a series of recordings.

Tribute performances may in a sense be thought of as alternate takes, and it is difficult not to compare (unfavourably) with the original.. Must listen again with "open ears".

[teamsaint]

Mingus at the Bohemia.

Sounds great to me, which is about all I have to go on.

[burning dog]

Coltrane and Dolphy about 2 weeks after their London concert

[Stanfordian]

Wayne Shorter with Lee Morgan, McCoy Tyner, Reggie Workman & Elvin Jones
‘Night Dreamer’
Blue Note (1964)

[Quarky]

Thanks for that Burning Dog.

The obvious difference between Dolphy and Coltrane, and the one constant thing about Coltrane throughout his career, was the Coltrane "sound". That's all I have to go on for the moment, but must give him some more extended turntable time.

...........[several hours later] my much diminished CD collection has Ascension and Meditations; Meditations seems a fine example of Free Jazz -others may have reached that point by different routes?

[Stanfordian]

Lee Morgan with Billy Higgins, Jackie McLean, Hank Mobley, Herbie Hancock & Larry Ridley
‘Cornbread’
Blue Note (1967)

[elmo]

elmo ~ Have been searching for Harold McNair's 'Affectionate Fink' for years.
Where did you manage to find a copy and did it break the bank?

JR

JR - I could only get this from Amazon, I checked the website tonight and copies are still available but they cost £31-96 which is what I had to pay. Personally I found it was worth it.

elmo

[elmo]

Lee Morgan with Billy Higgins, Jackie McLean, Hank Mobley, Herbie Hancock & Larry Ridley
‘Cornbread’
Blue Note (1967)

Stan - Can't fault your choices in this one and also the Wayne Shorter - classic bluenotery !

elmo

[Richard Barrett]

they are a snap shot of one moment in time of the improvisatory sequences, and these sequences can become too familiar with repeated plays.

But why is a "snapshot of one moment" more likely to become "too familiar" than, for example, a composition painstakingly worked on for years? (if that's what you're saying!) The composition too can easily have been just as much the result of a moment of heightened inspiration as can the improvised elements in a jazz recording. Conversely, the lead-up to the moment of heightened inspiration in the jazz solo can easily have been long and tortuous.

Earlier today I was listening to Andrew Hill's Point of Departure, mainly to feed my Dolphy obsession, but found many other wondeful things in it too.

[Quarky]

But why is a "snapshot of one moment" more likely to become "too familiar" than, for example, a composition painstakingly worked on for years? (if that's what you're saying!) The composition too can easily have been just as much the result of a moment of heightened inspiration as can the improvised elements in a jazz recording. Conversely, the lead-up to the moment of heightened inspiration in the jazz solo can easily have been long and tortuous.

Earlier today I was listening to Andrew Hill's Point of Departure, mainly to feed my Dolphy obsession, but found many other wondeful things in it too.

Thanks for the reference. A saner approach to jazz than some others I can think of.

Allow me to revise my "snapshot" comment. In the context of the River, I found the introduction by the bass, with Bill Evan's sparse chords,followed by Miles understated solo, all flowed along very nicely, and I was enjoying the view.

My attention was then grabbed by a loud and brilliant solo by 'Trane, followed by an equally brilliant solo by Cannonball. I was some place else, and where I usually am when I recall this piece. I may have had in the back of my mind a somewhat more restrained John Coltrane in an alternate take in a reissue, which might have fitted better - if not So What, some other piece by the band. Hence my comment about Snap Shot- a large bird flying across the river, and then disappearing.

[Richard Barrett]

I may have had in the back of my mind a somewhat more restrained John Coltrane in an alternate take in a reissue

IMO all those alternate takes could better be collected on separate albums for those really interested in them (which I am, sometimes, but not every time I want to hear a given album). Of course the label's motivation is to "add value" to a reissue so that more people buy it, rather than actually to enhance the listening experience. The selection of tracks on the original album may also not have been entirely for aesthetic reasons, but it's another kind of "snapshot" that's part of the album's identity and integrity.

[Jazzrook]

JR - I could only get this from Amazon, I checked the website tonight and copies are still available but they cost £31-96 which is what I had to pay. Personally I found it was worth it.

elmo

Many thanks, elmo. Not sure why the reissue of 'Affectionate Fink' is such a high price but may treat myself to a copy for Xmas(or request a track on JRR!)

JR

[Ian Thumwood]

Jazzrook

I saw some publicity for this record on another website where it was amongst a number of re-issues. It seems odd that the prices are so high for a 2016 re-release. I wonder if the high prices reflect the fact that it has not been formally issued yet.

There are some really strange things happening with jazz CDs. A number of labels like 428 who specialise in Chicago jazz are not available on Amazon and the latest Jason Roebke Cd seems to be available from the record label directly. I have also noticed that the prices have shot up recently following the poor exchange rate. For the first time since I have collected CDs, some releases now seem really hard to get hold of. It is almost like when I was a teenager collecting LPs.

Now playing Miles & Gil's "Sketches of Spain."

[Jazzrook]

Some of the most powerful playing I've heard from Chet Baker on Monk's 'Well You Needn't' with fine solos from tenor saxophonist Bobby Jaspar, guitarist Rene Thomas & pianist Armadeo Tommasi in Italy, 1962:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CydM2f311jc

JR