What Jazz are you listening to now?

[Stanfordian]

'The Late Show'
Eddie ‘Lockjaw’ Davis with Johnny Griffin, Junior Mance, Larry Gales & Ben Riley
Prestige (recorded Minton's Playhouse, Harlem 1961)

[Ian Thumwood]

Very interesting - and also excellent.

Many thanks Ian.

Lit-Lat

The album is really good but, on a general note, I think that Latin Jazz does pose some really interesting questions about the music which are not necessarily obvious because the music is immediately infectious. For me, Latin Jazz is the Holy Grail of rhythmic complexity. From the point of view of the interplay of polyrhythms, I don't think that many other styles of jazz come close. There are some bands where I think that the composers have achieved a level of complexity in their music - the two examples which immediately come to mind are Jelly Roll Morton and Henry Threadgill. But Latin Jazz seems to push the music into increased complexity with the way the horns, piano and bass all dovetail together and then there is the added layer of percussion put on top where 2 or 3 other musicians produce a melange of rhythms with each instrument assigned it's own part. The music is pretty complicated and whilst there is often a trade-off with Form, I would be pushed to think of any other kind of jazz where the rhythmic element is so complicated. In jazz, there has generally been an impetus to loosen the rhythm and give the music a more elastic approach to it. This , to my mind, it not a new thing but a key element in jazz evolution which stems from Louis Armstrong and culminates in some jazz today where the music's rhythmic impetus is distilled down to a pulse. The "king" of a more oblique style of drummer was, in my opinion, Paul Motian who was perfectly summed up as being the most swinging, un-swinging drummer in jazz.

This Latin music I get the impression that the goals are totally different. Instead of making the rhythm more elastic, the intention seems to make it more complex and stack different rhythms one on top of the other. For me, Latin Jazz does for rhythm what Bach did with his Fugues. The energy within Latin Jazz often means that you get caught up in the excitement of the music yet when you play close attention it seems extremely complicated. Last week's J-Z lauded Randy Weston's indebtedness to African music and saw him as somewhat of a one off. In Latin Jazz, the primacy of the percussion and the link to Africa must surely be more primary. There is almost a tendency to kick Latin Jazz in to the long grass as "serious jazz" and it is true that it has always had one foot in dance music. Tomorrow I am going to hear a live performance of one of my favourite classical compositions, Steve Reich's "Music for 18 musicians" and I always feel that the way a playing live Valdes lets the rhythm mutate is very similar to what Reich was trying to achieve.

The Valdes disc is hugely enjoyable and something someone who is not coming from jazz can appreciate simply because of the excitement generated by the rhythm. There are other elements at play which make this music enjoyable, whether it is the use of dynamics or the whole sense of fun with which the music is executed. But if you pay close attention, the music is intellectually fascinating as well. The music is broadly in a Hard bop tradition yet Valdes is more informed as to be limited by this. As I said, one track slips in to stride piano and an infectious New Orleans groove from it's Latin starting point and there are other tracks where Valdes' playing exhibits the same arrhythmic assault as Cecil Taylor which sound like the musical equivalent of a sports car going a hand-break turn on a patch of ice in it's respect of the bar lines.

I enjoy listening to Latin Jazz and feel it is an area which is frequently overlooked with it's heritage and more adventurous leanings being accorded the same level of respect as jazz from the US.

[Serial_Apologist]

Excellent insights there, Ian.

[CGR]

Complete Live at the Blackhawk
Shelly Manne and his Men

Listened to the first 2 of the 4 cds last night. Wonderful West Coast bebop.

[LMcD]

In A Sentimental Mood - Duke Ellington recordings 1929 to 1949. An ideal accompaniment to my customary Saturday morning struggle with The Times crossword.

[Stanfordian]

‘Bluesnik’
Jackie McLean with Freddie Hubbard, Kenny Drew, Doug Watkins & Pete LaRoca
Blue Note (1961)

[Stanfordian]

‘Breezin’
Sonny Redd with Sonny Red, Yusef Lateef, Blue Mitchell, Barry Harris, Bob Cranshaw & Albert 'Tootie' Heath
Jazzland (1960)

[Stanfordian]

‘The Jody Grind’
Horace Silver with Woody Shaw, Tyrone Washington, James Spaulding, Larry Ridley & Roger Humphries
Blue Note (1966)

[Jazzrook]

Cecil Taylor & Albert Ayler playing 'Four' taped during a TV broadcast in Copenhagen on November 16, 1962 with Jimmy Lyons(alto sax) & Sunny Murray(drums).
Sadly, the video footage is believed lost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3QV2FLeSyI

JR

[Lat-Literal]

Excellent insights there, Ian.

Seconded.

Many thanks to Ian for such a thoughtful and interesting post.

You both have considerably more expertise than me so I am finding it an educational process!

[Stanfordian]

‘The Thing to Do’
Blue Mitchell with Junior Cook, Chick Corea, Gene Taylor & Al Foster
Blue Note (1965)

[burning dog]

There's a Riot Goin' On - Sly Stone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGXM3RWKVUA

[Stanfordian]

There's a Riot Goin' On - Sly Stone

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...cGJ3rGT8t1OPod

Hiya burning dog,

I love this album too - But to me its funk not jazz. - However, I suppose it's just good music.

[burning dog]

Hiya burning dog,

I love this album too - But to me its funk not jazz. - However, I suppose it's just good music.

So do I, but a big influence on Herbie Hancock and Miles Davis in the early mid 70s.

Often get a different response on the jazz thread.

Posted it on the Rock/Soul etc thread as well

[Jazzrook]

John Coltrane & Stan Getz playing 'Hackensack' in Germany, 1960 with Oscar Peterson, Paul Chambers & Jimmy Cobb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beCGdmrP8Xc

JR