What Jazz are you listening to now?

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  • Ian Thumwood
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4129

    SA

    I actually agree with a good proportion of what you are saying. Weather Report were probably more influential in the UK than the US but I would also add that the band had a bearing on European groups like "Colours" too. Since seeing Wayne Shorter for the first time in 2001, I have really started to appreciate his music more and more. From a small band perspective, he is probably the most original writer in jazz after Herbie Nichols and like the pianist, seemed to have grasped the point about the need to look at unusual forms and bizarre chord progressions. He is a really terrific improviser too and the combination of these two elements is fascinating. Even at his least inspiring fusion worst, there is an intelligence in his music. Given what he has produced within the last twenty years and his legacy in the 1960's, it does seem to me that he under-achieved after the demise of Weather Report and maybe was less than compelling during the latter stages if that group's existence.

    I must admit that I was getting in to jazz at the point when Weather Report were considered to be pretty naff. Listening to jazz in the early 80'sonwards, Shorter's stock was pretty low at that time and the emergence of younger players like Wynton Marsalis all of a sudden woke people up to how over-produced jazz had become by the late 70's. I discussed jazz just as fusion was on it's last legs and the re-awakening of the music's creativity in the mid 80's spelt the death knell for bands like Weather Report. As a teenager getting in to the new jazz of that time, I would not be caught dead listening to something as passe as Weather Report. I can well remember Zawinul cropping up as a judge on a jazz talent competition on BBC 2 where Andy Sheppard came second to Martin Speake's "Itchy Fingers" and Jazz Journal being full of letters along the lines of Zawinul being a "non-entity." I grew up in this environment where Weather Report were too modern for my Dad but not hip enough for me. Their music largely eluded me for a long while like a lot of fusion and jazz-rock. I was not old enough to appreciate the music Weather Report evolved from especially as I dived straight in to the then contemporary scene when I was old enough to drive myself to gigs. Back then, I was more enthusiastic about hearing either older generation players whose music I had grown up with (Lionel Hampton, Jay McShann, Buddy Tate, etc) or players like Bill Frisell, John Scofield, Jan Garbarek, who presented something new and different.

    You are spot on as how Zawinul influenced bands like Loose Tubes and it is possible to go back to the Weather Report records and see there is a degree of musical intelligence within the music. I am certainly alot more positive about this band than I would have been earlier even though I think the whole fusion / Jazz-Rock thing was frequently a musical horror show - as bad in it's way as some of the more commercial big bands of the 1930's and 40's such as Harry James, Glenn Miller, Jimmy Dorsey, etc who also seemed to frequently combine high levels of musicianship with questionable taste. So much of this stuff now sounds hopelessly dated or simply twee. For me, it was a definite low-point in jazz but salvaged by some musicians like Hancock and Shorter who were capable of ensuring a high degree of musical output. Others like John McLaughlin have continued to remain elusive in their appeal. Others like Barbara Thompson who you mention seem symptomatic of their time - agreeable enough to listen to but like a more interesting version of the music you used to get on the BBC test card. Paraphernalia have been really poorly served by the passage of time and "of the era" in a way that you described Geraldo. Not a fan in the remotest sense of either. In trying to be too modish, many of these fusion bands now sound hopelessly dated. I grant that you will have a different opinion and I am sure that anyone coming to jazz in the two decades before me will certainly look at these groups with more favour than I do. I had been interesting listening to some old records from the early 80's such as Billy Bang and Andrew Hill on some Soul Note records I have picked up in the last 12 months. They have not dated because they never really tried to be too fashionable. There is an integrity in this music which is often absent from a lot of fusion.

    You mention composers like Lizst which is interesting because his approach is not too dissimilar to a lot of jazz rock. In the hands of other composers like Alkan, you just get the technique before music results which is so typical of jazz-rock whereas the whole Romantic idea of "picture-painting" in music is yet anther pitfall fusion seemed to fall into. From a point of view of Weather Report alone, I have more sympathy for Zawinul than I previously had whereas Jaco seems totally over-rated even though I am very appreciative that his was the name that people approaching this band from rock music always latch on to.

    What I don't hear in Weather Report is the notion of Zawinul and Shorter swapping ideas. Maybe this happened within earlier incarnations of the band . Instead, the band seems to really be a small group trying to perform like a big band, the horns and reeds replaced by Zawinul's bank of keyboards. Given Zawinul's great affection for Duke Ellington, maybe this should not be a surprise. For me, this is perhaps the more interesting element within Weather Report's music. Returning to other bands like Horace Silver's groups, it is fascinating to see that for all the supposed lack of freedom in big band jazz ( which I totally disagree with), many small bands took a lot from the writing of large ensembles to make their arrangements more interesting. Not sure just how much Silver was listening to say Basie's second testament band when the pianist was writing his charts. I am sure that Zawinul had Ellington in mind when composing his though. Personally, I find the whole concept of jazz composition to be of immense interest. The idea of writing fascinates me, whether it is someone like Duke Ellington or Fletcher Henderson and right through to people like John Hollenbeck today. Traditionally, small bands have been there to offer jazz musicians more freedom to express themselves but this seems a bit of a cliché. Some of the more interesting small groups have relied on writing going back from the likes of Jelly Roll Morton and John Kirby and through to bands like the MJQ. Today there are composers like Alan Ferber who have developed writing for smaller groups to a fine art. Weather Report just seem part of the tradition.
    Last edited by Ian Thumwood; 17-03-18, 10:04.

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    • Jazzrook
      Full Member
      • Mar 2011
      • 3061

      Billy Harper Quintet live at Dizzy's 2017:

      Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.


      JR

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      • Stunsworth
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 1553

        Mingus: Mingus at Antibes

        Streamed from Qobuz.
        Steve

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        • Stanfordian
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 9308

          ‘Jug’
          Gene Ammons with Richard Wyands, Clarence Anderson, Doug Watkins, JC Heard
          Prestige (1961)

          Comment

          • Joseph K
            Banned
            • Oct 2017
            • 7765

            Scarcely a day goes by without listening to 'Boogie Woogie Waltz'. Granted, Shorter might not seem central to the music, but really his 'less is more' approach, the judicious lyricism of his albeit brief lines are like brush strokes without which a masterpiece would be incomplete.

            I love Weather Report, but then, I am something of a fusionhead. :p I really dig the electronic instruments - I'm actually not that keen, for instance, on guitarists using a clichéd tone - I appreciate the fact that McLaughlin has changed his guitar and tone throughout his career. I also like the use of more percussion, the mixing of straight and swing rhythms... I love Joe Zee, and his wide palette of keyboard tones. This is a great show:

            Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.


            The tune best to check out is 'Black Market'. For me, Jaco always sounds like he's playing for the music, interacting with others...
            Last edited by Joseph K; 17-03-18, 18:52.

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            • Stanfordian
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 9308

              ‘It’s About Time’
              Clark Terry, Jimmy Hamilton, Britt Woodman, Tommy Flamagan Wendell Marshall & Mel Lewis
              Swingville (1961)

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              • teamsaint
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 25190

                John Dankworth. $1,000,000 Collections. At least I would be if I could find more than one track online. The one I did find was terrific. I may just lash out on the double reissue with Zodiac Variations, as I won half the cost on the Postcode lottery last week.

                Also some Don Rendell/Ian Carr Quintet from Phase 111, EG On!, and Black Marigolds.

                All completely new to me, and really enjoying them.

                Is this Don Rendell box worth getting ?
                I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                I am not a number, I am a free man.

                Comment

                • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 4270

                  Can't speak for the earlier Rendell stuff in that box, but "Roarin" I do have on CD, and had when it first came out. It's significant in that the front line is Rendell on Tenor with Graham Bond on alto, before he reinvented himself as an over the top "Organisation". It's a little rough around the edges but a lot of fire etc. It was issued in the States on Jazzland. There maybe a few tracks on Youtube?

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                  • Serial_Apologist
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 37559

                    Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View Post
                    Can't speak for the earlier Rendell stuff in that box, but "Roarin" I do have on CD, and had when it first came out. It's significant in that the front line is Rendell on Tenor with Graham Bond on alto, before he reinvented himself as an over the top "Organisation". It's a little rough around the edges but a lot of fire etc. It was issued in the States on Jazzland. There maybe a few tracks on Youtube?
                    Iirc "Roarin'" got 4 stars in Downbeat - a first for a British recording, that being pretty prestigous in the right way back in '61. I always wish John Burch's Octet with Bondy, Heckstall-Smith, Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker among others had released on vinyl - I have some bootleg - a blindfolded friend was absolutely adament it was Dolphy with Mingus - which I promised the kind donor would make me millions when I got it released one day!!!

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                    • Serial_Apologist
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 37559

                      Originally posted by teamsaint View Post
                      Is this Don Rendell box worth getting ?
                      https://www.amazon.co.uk/Classic-Alb...%3ADon+Rendell
                      I would think so, TS, including as it does stuff not in my possession from the 1950s.

                      Comment

                      • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 4270

                        Georgie Fame always speaks very highly of Johnny Burch etc, they were playing opposite him when he got the Flamingo gig. I think he (JB) wrote one of his early singles, "Preach and Teach"?

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                        • Serial_Apologist
                          Full Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 37559

                          Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View Post
                          Georgie Fame always speaks very highly of Johnny Burch etc, they were playing opposite him when he got the Flamingo gig. I think he (JB) wrote one of his early singles, "Preach and Teach"?
                          Wasn't it "Yeah, yeah"?

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                          • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 4270

                            Yeah Yeah was first a Mongo Santamaria record (Grant/Pat Patrick), then cut with lyrics by Jon Hendricks for LHR. Fame had the live album early on (with Coleman Hawkins and Clerk Terry) and got Tubby Hayes to arrange it for him and the Blue Flames. Result, huge hit.

                            Preach and Teach was the flip on the 45 which is where I remember hearing it first. Written by Johnny Burch.

                            Hope Hayes and Burch got a small? share of the royalties!

                            BN.

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                            • Stanfordian
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 9308

                              ‘Song for my Father’
                              Horace Silver with:
                              a) Blue Mitchell, Junior Cook, Gene Taylor & Roy Brooks
                              b) Carmell Jones, Joe Henderson, Teddy Smith & Roger Humphries
                              Blue Note (1963/64)

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                              • Serial_Apologist
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 37559

                                Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View Post
                                Yeah Yeah was first a Mongo Santamaria record (Grant/Pat Patrick), then cut with lyrics by Jon Hendricks for LHR. Fame had the live album early on (with Coleman Hawkins and Clerk Terry) and got Tubby Hayes to arrange it for him and the Blue Flames. Result, huge hit.

                                Preach and Teach was the flip on the 45 which is where I remember hearing it first. Written by Johnny Burch.

                                Hope Hayes and Burch got a small? share of the royalties!

                                BN.
                                Thanks for correcting me on that, Bluesie.

                                Comment

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