In Out In Out Shake It All About

[Serial_Apologist]

Start of the new schedules for jazz programming this Saturday, (apart from Geoffrey pro tem: same time, same place) please note:

Sat 5 Sept
4.00 Jazz Line-Up
Julian Joseph presents a concert celebrating the 79th birthday of saxophonist Bobby Wellins, recorded in January at the inaugural South Coast Jazz Festival in Shoreham-by-Sea (R)

Not a nip nor a tuck anywhere on view.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b052zm1k

8.00 Jazz Record Requests

Includes a fantastic sweeping number from Kenny Wheeler at a chronological peak in his career, and a newish track from Mike Gibbs, from whom I feel we hear too little.

http://www.alynshipton.co.uk/blog/

12.00 Geoffrey Smith's Jazz
Despite his early death, West Virginia-born tenor saxophonist Chu Berry (1908-41) was a swing-era giant. Geoffrey Smith picks highlights of his output.

A jazz buff's right to Chu...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b068rzrp

Mon 7 Sept
Jazz on 3
Jez Nelson presents highlights from the launch of saxophonist Kamasi Washington's debut album The Epic at the Regent Theater, Los Angeles.

And what a debut! I wait to hear what in particular Ian Thumwood makes of this very large big band line-up with, er... choir.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00lqbxn

(One more week of pom tiddly om pom Proms)

[Lat-Literal]

They don't half move the jazz schedule around serial_apologist. It seems to change at least annually. One of the decisions I made on returning to this forum was to have a very minimalist approach to commenting on jazz. I am attracted to many elements of it but feel less able to work with it knowledgeably than in other areas of music. That doesn't mean
I'm switching off. Far from it. And given that BBC Radio 3 feels it has to appeal to a wide range of people, including presumably me, I will make just two points knowing that the powers-that-be do keep watch on this part of the site. One, Jazz FM doesn't appeal to me. The Freeman "Blues and Boogie" programme has some interest but when Cerys Matthews dips into that sort of area on 6 Music it suits me better. There is also some time for Peter Young because of his historical contribution to radio in London but he is too jazz funky to grab me. Two, the programme that appeals to me and which I find the most accessible is Alyn's. I'm not just saying this because he often reads the comments here. I do like his presentation and anyone who includes Slim Gaillard, Don Cherry and Zoe Rahman in the same programme - I know it was a while ago - has an ability not only to inform but excite.

[Ian Thumwood]

SA

There are , in fact, two newer Mike Gibbs albums that came out on Cuneiform this summer. I have the album with the NDR big band and Bill Frisell. Had this been made back in the early 1990's, I would have been thrilled by this coupling of two of my musical heroes. However, I think the writing is not quite as spectacular as you would normally expect from Gibbs. There are some good tracks on it (largely the Frisell compositions including an on the money version of "Freddy's Step" where is prime Downtown jazz) but the stand out is the re-working of Charlie Christian / Benny Goodman piece "Benny's Bugle" which is terrific. The album includes a re-working of Gil Evans' "Las Vegas Tango" but I much prefer the original.

It is strange to consider these musicians as pensioners. Gibbs is 78 and Frisell now 64 with both very much being respected elder statesmen in jazz. One of the best ever concerts I've been to was when Mike Gibbs toured with John Scofield and the music was a match made in heaven with the guitarist's music being an ideal match for a punchy big band. Frisell's music is different and the album tends to concentrate on earlier themes from Frisell's heyday" such as "Throughout" which appeared on his debut record. He has changed over the years with less reliance on effects and I think tended to become a bit more conservative in what has been released under his own name. This is a major departure for Bill Frisell as it is ages since he has appeared with a big band. (Julius Hemphill's outfit in the late 1980's.)
The odd thing about the disc was that Gibbs no longer seems quite so modern or indeed quite so distinctive as his efforts have been. Other than Scofield, his best work with a guitarist has always been with Philip Catherine on the exceptional "Chrome Waterfall " album. "Plays a Bill Frisell set list" isn't a patch on this but, that said, I say Catherine play in a trio of Didier Lockwood (violin) and Richard Galliano (accordion) back in July and was so bored I walked out before I fell asleep. The trio's music had little to do with jazz and the general consensus afterwards was the it was a pretty dreadful concert.

Mike Gibb's music always seemed like a natural extension of the brilliance of Gil Evans. I think that big band writing has now moved on from these high points with the likes of Schneider, Hollenbeck, Argue, etc moving the music further onwards.

[Quarky]

, Jazz FM doesn't appeal to me. .

Nor me.

Items of real Jazz are few and far between - sometimes to be found between 6pm and 7 pm and on Sarah Ward's programmes. Helen Mayhew and the others tend to deliberately underplay matters.

Jazz FM is designed to appeal to City Slickers on the make, and who like listening to female Soul, R&B singers.

[Serial_Apologist]

SA

There are , in fact, two newer Mike Gibbs albums that came out on Cuneiform this summer. I have the album with the NDR big band and Bill Frisell. Had this been made back in the early 1990's, I would have been thrilled by this coupling of two of my musical heroes. However, I think the writing is not quite as spectacular as you would normally expect from Gibbs. There are some good tracks on it (largely the Frisell compositions including an on the money version of "Freddy's Step" where is prime Downtown jazz) but the stand out is the re-working of Charlie Christian / Benny Goodman piece "Benny's Bugle" which is terrific. The album includes a re-working of Gil Evans' "Las Vegas Tango" but I much prefer the original.

It is strange to consider these musicians as pensioners. Gibbs is 78 and Frisell now 64 with both very much being respected elder statesmen in jazz. One of the best ever concerts I've been to was when Mike Gibbs toured with John Scofield and the music was a match made in heaven with the guitarist's music being an ideal match for a punchy big band. Frisell's music is different and the album tends to concentrate on earlier themes from Frisell's heyday" such as "Throughout" which appeared on his debut record. He has changed over the years with less reliance on effects and I think tended to become a bit more conservative in what has been released under his own name. This is a major departure for Bill Frisell as it is ages since he has appeared with a big band. (Julius Hemphill's outfit in the late 1980's.)
The odd thing about the disc was that Gibbs no longer seems quite so modern or indeed quite so distinctive as his efforts have been. Other than Scofield, his best work with a guitarist has always been with Philip Catherine on the exceptional "Chrome Waterfall " album. "Plays a Bill Frisell set list" isn't a patch on this but, that said, I say Catherine play in a trio of Didier Lockwood (violin) and Richard Galliano (accordion) back in July and was so bored I walked out before I fell asleep. The trio's music had little to do with jazz and the general consensus afterwards was the it was a pretty dreadful concert.

Mike Gibb's music always seemed like a natural extension of the brilliance of Gil Evans. I think that big band writing has now moved on from these high points with the likes of Schneider, Hollenbeck, Argue, etc moving the music further onwards.

I think I agree with all of that. As for Frisell, I always felt his effects to mask a not particularly interesting player underneath, even when everyone was enthusing to an absurd degree.

[Serial_Apologist]

Jazz FM

I didn't realise it was still going, I must admit!

[Ian Thumwood]

The praise heaped upon Bill Frisell was totally deserved and , in a decade dominated by guitar players, he remained one of the most exciting soloists to emerge in the 1980's. I don't agree that the effects masked an uninteresting player rather enhanced the possibilities of what could be expressed on the instrument. His best work under his own name tends to be on solo projects and this is why the work with the big band is intriguing. The encounter with Mike Gibbs reveals Frisell to be more interesting than the writing that highlights his efforts.

I would say that the likes of Bill Frisell, John Scofield, John Abercrombie and Pat Metheny were producing the more interesting jazz at that time with Frisell easily being the most radical of the four and easily the most radical guitarist since Derek Bailey. It is fascinating that the guitar seems to have reached an impasse in development since this point with so many American guitarists like Ben Monder or Steve Cardena offering an amalgam of these styles and nothing new. I have not listened too much to Nils Cline who is often cited as a major voice on the instrument whereas younger musicians like Lage Lund don't interest me much. If the instrument is to be at the forefront of jazz it will be with musicians like Jeff Parker (a kind of jazz anti-hero who eschews the usual pyrotechnics associated with the instrument) or Mary Halvorson who was a former Philip Catherine pupil now more closely associated with the avant garde.

[Serial_Apologist]

The praise heaped upon Bill Frisell was totally deserved and , in a decade dominated by guitar players, he remained one of the most exciting soloists to emerge in the 1980's. I don't agree that the effects masked an uninteresting player rather enhanced the possibilities of what could be expressed on the instrument. His best work under his own name tends to be on solo projects and this is why the work with the big band is intriguing. The encounter with Mike Gibbs reveals Frisell to be more interesting than the writing that highlights his efforts.

I would say that the likes of Bill Frisell, John Scofield, John Abercrombie and Pat Metheny were producing the more interesting jazz at that time with Frisell easily being the most radical of the four and easily the most radical guitarist since Derek Bailey. It is fascinating that the guitar seems to have reached an impasse in development since this point with so many American guitarists like Ben Monder or Steve Cardena offering an amalgam of these styles and nothing new. I have not listened too much to Nils Cline who is often cited as a major voice on the instrument whereas younger musicians like Lage Lund don't interest me much. If the instrument is to be at the forefront of jazz it will be with musicians like Jeff Parker (a kind of jazz anti-hero who eschews the usual pyrotechnics associated with the instrument) or Mary Halvorson who was a former Philip Catherine pupil now more closely associated with the avant garde.

Guitarists in jazz probably polarise more than any other musicians. Tell you what, Ian - maybe you've got a point; I've been reassessing a lot of people I haven't paid much attention to for some time. I have a cassette of Mike Gibbs's band's appearance with Frisell at the 1987 Bracknell Festival - I'll give it a listen tomorrow.

[Ian Thumwood]

SA

The interesting thing about Frisell is the way he re-harmonises from the root up. I really rate his sense of harmony although I don't think he can really do bop. The guitar might polarise but I think the instrument really came in to it's own after the advent of rock when it probably had the maximum potential to offend jazz sensibilities. It would be intriguing to hear the earlier Bracknell performance in comparison with the latest disc which is a slight disappointment.

The one guitarist who never appealed to me was John McLaughlin.

[Old Grumpy]

Guitarists in jazz probably polarise more than any other musicians. Tell you what, Ian - maybe you've got a point; I've been reassessing a lot of people I haven't paid much attention to for some time. I have a cassette of Mike Gibbs's band's appearance with Frisell at the 1987 Bracknell Festival - I'll give it a listen tomorrow.

Surely you mean Frizzle*, S_A

* http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...hlight=frizzle #17

OG

[Serial_Apologist]

Surely you mean Frizzle*, S_A

* http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...hlight=frizzle #17

OG

Bl**dy hell, OG - you keeping tabs on me???

Actually, while there's no mention of that spelling there, when I went and saw Power Tools at Crawley in around 1991, John Etheridge happened to be going in in front of me. I tapped him on the shoulder (which is much higher than mine!) and when he turned around said, "Hey John, you're not going in to see this are you?" To which he replied, "Why, don't you rate Bill Frisell then?" and I replied, "You mean Bill Frizzle - and no, I don't: he's nowhere near as good as you!"

[Tenor Freak]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Bill Frisell is brilliant as a sideman and useless as a leader. The Paul Motian Trio, and the Paul Bley Quartet were fucking excellent, thanks to his work. As a Garbarek fan, I'd say his stuff on Paths, Prints is wonderful and really makes a difference to the LP. Then again, his stuff as a leader is....er....shite. I have a copy of Lookout for Hope...played it once or twice...I really should sell it on ebay or summat

[Old Grumpy]

Bl**dy hell, OG - you keeping tabs on me???

Actually, while there's no mention of that spelling there, when I went and saw Power Tools at Crawley in around 1991, John Etheridge happened to be going in in front of me. I tapped him on the shoulder (which is much higher than mine!) and when he turned around said, "Hey John, you're not going in to see this are you?" To which he replied, "Why, don't you rate Bill Frisell then?" and I replied, "You mean Bill Frizzle - and no, I don't: he's nowhere near as good as you!"

I remember your story in #17 - I went to see Frisell with another guitarist some years ago. They seemed to be having a private gig with each other, seemingly unaware there was a paying audience in the auditorium.

OG

[Serial_Apologist]

I remember your story in #17 - I went to see Frisell with another guitarist some years ago. They seemed to be having a private gig with each other, seemingly unaware there was a paying audience in the auditorium.

OG

There was that Angel Song tour Kenny Wheeler did with Frisell, Dave Holland and Lee Konitz that sold more than any other of Kenny's albums, and was iirc described by one writer as Kenny returning to his West Coast roots. I don't think Kenny figured either of those out either: the sales or the connection!

[Ian Thumwood]

I have got most of Bill Frisell's albums up until "East / West" which said pretty good double CD of two live gigs. As far as other works, "Is that you" is pretty sensational. They are uneven as a whole with some like the album with Elvin Jones and Dave Holland totally misfiring but I would suggest that "Quartet" was probably one of the greatest jazz albums of the 1990's. I love the unusual combination of guitar, trombone, viola and trumpet and it gives the band the feel of an up-dated Adrian Rollini group. The solo "Ghost Town" that followed it is almost as good. Not all of the albums are great. I was listening to "Where in the world" a few weeks back and it was under-whelming despite having the same line up as "look out for hope." "Have a little faith" is pretty good and includes the sensational deconstruction of a Madonna tune "Live to tell" which belies it's bubble gum origins. The one album I particularly liked was "Nashville" which was largely acoustic and included Jerry Douglas on dobro. It was slated at the time but I think it is a really successful attempt to fuse two genres - in a way that the later "The Inter-continentals" jazz and World Music mix falls woefully short of achieving. I stopped buying his records mid-2000's when he started working with Tucker Martine.