How Gen Z fell in love with jazz?

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I think jazz has more than demonstrated it's value historically, artistically, socially and politically etc. The problem (for me) is that we have now reached the "do not resuscitate" end period of its evolution.So much of the "contemporary" bores me to death, both the endless retread of previous styles and players, and the poverty of the new.

But then I am 105.

[Padraig]

I think jazz has more than demonstrated it's value historically, artistically, socially and politically etc. The problem (for me) is that we have now reached the "do not resuscitate" end period of its evolution.So much of the "contemporary" bores me to death, both the endless retread of previous styles and players, and the poverty of the new.

But then I am 105.

I'm replying to your post Bluesnik, but I also have in mind Quarky's #15, who responded to TaramandeepKang's #10. In wishing to encourage an interest in Jazz to anyone new to it, I am simply playing 2 pieces - the first an original from 1927, the second a version from 2022. I would suggest that wherever one starts it is possible to evolve elsewhere if desired. I started at early 20th century with Louis Armstrong and applaud Tuba Skinny for keeping that flag (my flag) flying.

Louis Armstrong & His Hot Five - Once in a While (1927) - YouTube

Tuba Skinny- Once in a While- Shaye playing Louis! Louis Armstrong's Hot Fives from 1927 - YouTube

[Serial_Apologist]

Hi all, I came across this thread and found the discussion interesting! I'm not quite sure whether I fit in Generation Z or X, I think I might be on the cusp, in any case, I am 28 years old. Probably not typical of my generation because I love reading books, indeed I feel lost without one! As regards musical tastes, I definitely like pop and rock. Whenever not working I usually listen to Radio Three. I have a somewhat developed taste for classical and a budding interest in jazz. How? I developed a habit of listening to JRR on Sundays, and will sometimes catch up on episodes of 'Round Midnight. I like Ezra Collective, and they have gained some prominence even among people who know much less about jazz, like me because of their award earlier this year. I think they recently sold out a football stadium, but I know so little about football, I can't remember which one! :-)

Hi TarandeepKang. You'll find all sorts of opinions about jazz if you dip in here, some of them quite strong and outspoken, as is to be expected of anything people feel passionate about.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm replying to your post Bluesnik, but I also have in mind Quarky's #15, who responded to TaramandeepKang's #10. In wishing to encourage an interest in Jazz to anyone new to it, I am simply playing 2 pieces - the first an original from 1927, the second a version from 2022. I would suggest that wherever one starts it is possible to evolve elsewhere if desired. I started at early 20th century with Louis Armstrong and applaud Tuba Skinny for keeping that flag (my flag) flying.

Louis Armstrong & His Hot Five - Once in a While (1927) - YouTube

Tuba Skinny- Once in a While- Shaye playing Louis! Louis Armstrong's Hot Fives from 1927 - YouTube

I came into the music at a time when rather than having the entire history as a lifelong project to curate, whether as musician, record producer, critic or general listener, the newest of the innovators subsumed the contributions of their antecedents into their own work tacitly, picking up from where the music had reached, moving beyond what they felt to be holding it back, (stride piano in the context of the innovatory piano/bass/drums trio in the 1940s as an earlier example of this attitude), rather than referencing the past through stylistic allusion (other than using the odd quote within a solo). That was because the early 1960s yielded a huge richness of possibilities not apparent to their forbears, who had contributed earlier themselves). Personally, possilbly for similar reasons to Bluesnik, I don't find those possibilities to anything like the same extent in where the music is seen as at its cutting edge today, and maybe has been for quite a few decades now. So the incomers will continue either to delve, delve and delve, way back into a de-historicised past, or ignore it pretty much altogether and use current musical fashions to refashion their own versions of jazz.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I'm replying to your post Bluesnik, but I also have in mind Quarky's #15, who responded to TaramandeepKang's #10. In wishing to encourage an interest in Jazz to anyone new to it, I am simply playing 2 pieces - the first an original from 1927, the second a version from 2022. I would suggest that wherever one starts it is possible to evolve elsewhere if desired. I started at early 20th century with Louis Armstrong and applaud Tuba Skinny for keeping that flag (my flag) flying.

Louis Armstrong & His Hot Five - Once in a While (1927) - YouTube

Tuba Skinny- Once in a While- Shaye playing Louis! Louis Armstrong's Hot Fives from 1927 - YouTube

That's obviously fine and I applaud.. I've been listening to "modern" jazz since I was c13 in 1960 and I still hold that era plus in great respect and still highly rewarding. But for me now I find the current "scene" if not increasing vacuous, then boring, endlessly rehashing things that as Miles said were "done far better the first time around". I listen to as much classical music as jazz now, Shostakovich, Bartok, Debussy, Mahler etc as any jazz, which was never the case before. As I suggested this may be MY "late life crisis" (sic) as I feel the same way about contemporary politics. Maybe these two things are connected!

And to add, similarly with other the arts. I've been working back through British & French TV drama via YouTube. David Edgar, Trevor Griffiths, David Mercer, David Hare etc, all political and all in prime spots, Sartre's Roads to Freedom over multiple episodes, & Brecht & Chekhov productions, incredible. The French films of the 60s, the extraordinary Polish films of the same period. John Berger given over an hour to present an extended essay, EP Thompson to talk about Blake. And these had big audiences. Too big for comfort maybe, so now a wasteland.

[Serial_Apologist]

That's obviously fine and I applaud.. I've been listening to "modern" jazz since I was c13 in 1960 and I still hold that era plus in great respect and still highly rewarding. But for me now I find the current "scene" if not increasing vacuous, then boring, endlessly rehashing things that as Miles said were "done far better the first time around". I listen to as much classical music as jazz now, Shostakovich, Bartok, Debussy, Mahler etc as any jazz, which was never the case before. As I suggested this may be MY "late life crisis" (sic) as I feel the same way about contemporary politics. Maybe these two things are connected!

And to add, similarly with other the arts. I've been working back through British & French TV drama via YouTube. David Edgar, Trevor Griffiths, David Mercer, David Hare etc, all political and all in prime spots, Sartre's Roads to Freedom over multiple episodes, & Brecht & Chekhov productions, incredible. The French films of the 60s, the extraordinary Polish films of the same period. John Berger given over an hour to present an extended essay, EP Thompson to talk about Blake. And these had big audiences. Too big for comfort maybe, so now a wasteland.

One good thing about today is the number of distributors of old movies of our youth, which I watch for reminders of such trivia as street furniture, retailers, clothes, but above all for characterisations, humour and attitudes then acceptable as signifiers of what were on people's minds as compared to today. What we gained, how and why, and lost. Apart from classical music, especially with "modern" having run concurrent with my equal love for jazz, our experiences almost duplicate here, so there must be quite a few of our generation in the same boat, reassuringly or not. I remember on one of those post-gig occasions when enthusiasts crowd in to take advantage of asking questions over some personal obsession, one guy asking Keith Tippett why he had gone musically in the direction he had, given that he had started out often standing in as a dep with the likes of Humph Lyttelton and Don Rendell, Keith answering that he had never really been a bebop pianist, and in any case there were those before who had already made a good enough job of it!

[Jazzrook]

That's obviously fine and I applaud.. I've been listening to "modern" jazz since I was c13 in 1960 and I still hold that era plus in great respect and still highly rewarding. But for me now I find the current "scene" if not increasing vacuous, then boring, endlessly rehashing things that as Miles said were "done far better the first time around". I listen to as much classical music as jazz now, Shostakovich, Bartok, Debussy, Mahler etc as any jazz, which was never the case before. As I suggested this may be MY "late life crisis" (sic) as I feel the same way about contemporary politics. Maybe these two things are connected!

And to add, similarly with other the arts. I've been working back through British & French TV drama via YouTube. David Edgar, Trevor Griffiths, David Mercer, David Hare etc, all political and all in prime spots, Sartre's Roads to Freedom over multiple episodes, & Brecht & Chekhov productions, incredible. The French films of the 60s, the extraordinary Polish films of the same period. John Berger given over an hour to present an extended essay, EP Thompson to talk about Blake. And these had big audiences. Too big for comfort maybe, so now a wasteland.

Noticed your mention of John Berger and then came across this intensely moving piece by him in 2008 on YouTube:

https://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=-ThCEzFWLOQ

JR

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Yep, there's another hugely impressive one where he ranges from Pinochet/CIA assassinations to late Beethoven quartets! And makes it all relevant.

[Serial_Apologist]

John Berger's "Ways of Seeing" documentaries on art and advertising imagery in the early 1970s put across Walter Benjamin's ideas in easily comprehensible form and for me made a massive and lasting impression. They were available on youtube the last time I checked.

[Padraig]

re. Ezra Collective, there was an excellent interview with Femi by Soweto one friday night on 'Round Midnight a little while ago - I can't find the link now. Remember I commented at the time: THAT'S WHERE IT'S AT MAN. Unfortunately I'm too aged to attend raves or sit in people's sitting rooms listening to jazz . However, I shouldn't overlook the fact that if Jazz can't collect young people, than its value is much diminished

In response Quarky, I listened to some short pieces by Ezra Collective. They are described as a hip hop outfit - not a sound I know much about. I heard 'God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen' and 'Feet for Dancing'. Hard for me to classify music in the current popular idioms, but Ezra Collective starts off well - Trumpet, sax, piano, bass, drums - A modern day Cool Five? Some solo work on piano and saxophone and jazz riffs throughout both pieces. I can see why T Kang and friends class it as a jazz group.
I don't see why a group with that line-up would not gain a lot from those early bands who had to limit their art to 3 mts at a time and still manage to turn out little masterpieces in that space. Of course, playing at their gigs, then as now, they would be able to expand on improvisation, and/or whatever development Jazz had/has arrived at.

[Quarky]

In response Quarky, I listened to some short pieces by Ezra Collective. They are described as a hip hop outfit - not a sound I know much about. I heard 'God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen' and 'Feet for Dancing'. Hard for me to classify music in the current popular idioms, but Ezra Collective starts off well - Trumpet, sax, piano, bass, drums - A modern day Cool Five? Some solo work on piano and saxophone and jazz riffs throughout both pieces. I can see why T Kang and friends class it as a jazz group.lelerpieces in that space. Of course, playing at their gigs, then as now, they would be able to expand on improvisation, and/or whatever development Jazz had/has arrived at.

Femi Koleoso is currently presenting a tribute to Quincy Jones on BBC Radio 6 Music - see BBC Sounds. This should give a closer view of his Modus Operandi.
Wish there was more listening time available - but I am currently concentrating on Mozart and all that stuff.

There are several albums available on Presto Music, including a composite of varius artists We Out Here (sorry, talking to myself).

[eighthobstruction]

Femi Koleoso is currently presenting a tribute to Quincy Jones on BBC Radio 6 Music - see BBC Sounds. This should give a closer view of his Modus Operandi.
Wish there was more listening time available - but I am currently concentrating on Mozart and all that stuff.

There are several albums available on Presto Music, including a composite of varius artists We Out Here (sorry, talking to myself).

....no I'm here Q....but listening to this fabulous concert (with Chick Coreas rhythm section still going strong [Stronger in fact]) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7Xus1p9-X4

[Quarky]

Many thanks eighth - good music still out there, but requires searching.

Femi seems principally dance orientated from my brief incursions.

[Ian Thumwood]

I think that there is alot of the fact that many jazz fans dislike the media telling them who they should listen to. The Ezra Collective are typical of so much jazz these days where I think jazz fans would be more appreciative if they had said they were a pop group influenced by jazz. It could be construed as double standards but is indicative of how many jazz fans think. Most jazz fans like outfits EW & F or Prince but only if they are considered as pop outfits. If they tried to sell themselves as jazz, I am sure the reaction would be different.

I say this having been listening to Stevie Wonder's ' Songs in the key of life which is a brilliant album was pop music of the time. It did make me wonder if this would be possible now and am convinced that the record would be marketed as jazz in 2024. Conversely, Ezra Collective would appeal to a broader pop audience in 1974. In a nutshell, audiences for jazz and pop have both dumbed down.

The other thing I would add was that alot of this territory was covered by MM and W in the 1990s but the reference to country blues , funk and free jazz seemed to really work. More recent outfits like Snarky Puppy have the chops but totally lack the edge. I am also sure that there must be some cross over between Ezra and St Germaine about 25 years ago. These groups reflect their times yet have lasting legacy. A bit like EST. Is anyone still playing their music these days ?