Tara's masalas

[Serial_Apologist]

Sun 27 Oct

http://www.alynshipton.co.uk/blog

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002452f

Sorry - can't seem to be able to do link to New Generation Artists for 9.40pm - includes Rob Luft-led group.

Mon 28 Oct - Fri- 1 Nov

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002455d

[Ian Thumwood]

I had half an ear on the radio this afternoon but was really surprised by the version of Take Five by dave Brubeck on JRR. It sounded like they had abandoned the structure of the tune and just improvising on one mode.

I have heard love versions of this tune before but this one was totally unfamiliar and left me quite amazed that the band was tipping it's hat towards John Coltrane. Paul Desmond's playing almost came across as out of character. This was by far the best track played this afternoon and the least expected.

Never seen any comments made by Dave Brubeck concerning his impressions of John Coltrane and not something I had ever considered .

[Serial_Apologist]

I had half an ear on the radio this afternoon but was really surprised by the version of Take Five by dave Brubeck on JRR. It sounded like they had abandoned the structure of the tune and just improvising on one mode.

I have heard love versions of this tune before but this one was totally unfamiliar and left me quite amazed that the band was tipping it's hat towards John Coltrane. Paul Desmond's playing almost came across as out of character. This was by far the best track played this afternoon and the least expected.

Never seen any comments made by Dave Brubeck concerning his impressions of John Coltrane and not something I had ever considered .

Oh very good, Ian!

I'm sure you really meant it! I heard the track and thought the same, while drawing very different conclusions. To me the band merely seemed to be noodling. In a way the first ever version of Take Five could be heard as an early example of "modalism", given that the performance ignores the chord structure of the tune and chunters away - to me vacuously - on the over-repeated pom pom pom pom-pa-dom piano riff, which always got on my nerves, frankly. There again I've never been a Brubeck/Desmond fan, although recognising the innovatory aspect of Brubeck introducing time structures other than 4/4 and 3/4.

[Jazzrook]

Oh very good, Ian!

I'm sure you really meant it! I heard the track and thought the same, while drawing very different conclusions. To me the band merely seemed to be noodling. In a way the first ever version of Take Five could be heard as an early example of "modalism", given that the performance ignores the chord structure of the tune and chunters away - to me vacuously - on the over-repeated pom pom pom pom-pa-dom piano riff, which always got on my nerves, frankly. There again I've never been a Brubeck/Desmond fan, although recognising the innovatory aspect of Brubeck introducing time structures other than 4/4 and 3/4.

I’ve also never been a great fan of the DBQ but was bowled over by this version of ‘40 Days’ and especially Paul Desmond’s alto solo:

https://www.YouTube.com/watch?v=L7dBplP_PfM

JR

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I find Brubeck extremely variable, sometimes noisily banging the hell out of the keyboard (pre Cecil), sometimes even sensitive - Audrie is a favourite.

One "Dave" album I do like is "Time In" from 1965 contrasting with all the other "Times", a concept which Max Roach did far better earlier. And for a series of underrated/ignored albums, Max's run of 50s/60s dates.

Here's "Time in" from the album http://youtu.be/17wGGSLbIiY?si=5FQ08yhSQlGUBNVO

And I don't mind Take Five, a jazz hit in the early 1960s was always unusual. I always think of it arriving with Dankworth's take on Moanin' and a particular Andre Previn 45. Play them on the Majestic ballroom juke box and annoy all the Saturday morning Bobby Vee fans. Well, two of them.

[Ian Thumwood]

My opinion of Brubeck is more favourable these days even if Time Out seems a bit twee in 2024. Take Five is fascinating in my opinion because of Joe Morello s drumming. I feel he was hugely underrated.

The point I was trying to raise was that I had never heard Brubeck go modal like that. It was a bit of a shock and note that the recording was made about 5 months after Coltrane's death. Maybe it was some kind of homage or even a pastiche that reflected the band's lack of enthusiasm for Take Five.

I can find no reference on line to Brubeck offering an opinion on Coltrane. I would have thought it would have been a very savvy response but perhaps mistrustful of the New Thing.

There was a comment in the board last week about Whisper Not being played in a different key than is familiar. There are fake book editions in a number of keys unsure which one was original.

I also thought that the Carlisle cover of the Fats Waller tune sounded like they were not playing the correct changes. Something sounded different. I have heard Carla Bley make comments about Mingus using incorrect chords. Just wonder how prevalent this was. I.e. busking new tunes from recordings and transcribing incorrectly. . I will have to listen again.

[Serial_Apologist]

My opinion of Brubeck is more favourable these days even if Time Out seems a bit twee in 2024. Take Five is fascinating in my opinion because of Joe Morello s drumming. I feel he was hugely underrated.

The point I was trying to raise was that I had never heard Brubeck go modal like that. It was a bit of a shock and note that the recording was made about 5 months after Coltrane's death. Maybe it was some kind of homage or even a pastiche that reflected the band's lack of enthusiasm for Take Five.

I can find no reference on line to Brubeck offering an opinion on Coltrane. I would have thought it would have been a very savvy response but perhaps mistrustful of the New Thing.

There was a comment in the board last week about Whisper Not being played in a different key than is familiar. There are fake book editions in a number of keys unsure which one was original.

I also thought that the Carlisle cover of the Fats Waller tune sounded like they were not playing the correct changes. Something sounded different. I have heard Carla Bley make comments about Mingus using incorrect chords. Just wonder how prevalent this was. I.e. busking new tunes from recordings and transcribing incorrectly. . I will have to listen again.

Is that right about the Brubeck band not liking Take Five??

The question about "playing incorrect chords" is a difficult one - where to draw the line? Coltrane changed the harmonies to My Favourite Things - thank goodness, I hear so many cry! The idea of contrafacts was the other way around - changing the tune but not the harmonies. Can either practice ever be said to be right or wrong? Only (maybe) by striving for "authenticity", a term I always suspect.

[Ian Thumwood]

Sa

My point is not that chords changes are altered or changed to modal scales but that someone had transcribed an incorrect or misspelt chord.

[Serial_Apologist]

Sa

My point is not that chords changes are altered or changed to modal scales but that someone had transcribed an incorrect or misspelt chord.

Oh, right.

[Ian Thumwood]

Listening again without the distraction of navigating around Basingstoke's roundabouts, I think the issue was with the singing, especially in the A sections of the song. I don't think she was in tune although the band were pretty good. Hugely impressed by trumpeter Dave Wilkins who I think was from West Indies. He reminded me a lot of the great Bill Coleman .

First time I had heard a record by this artist but I am scratching my head as to where I have heard Wlikins before. I am aware he played with Ken Johnson's band but think it might have been in a wartime Harry Parry group. Might be mistaken.

The Brubeck Tokyo album is pretty good. He composed a lot of great tunes....just as was the case with Fats waller whose tune Carlisle performed. Waller gets seriously over looked with the GAS repertoire these days. I find Brubeck more interesting than Desmond as a soloist but I think his more pugalistic style was the perfect contrast to the alto which might have otherwise sounded too pretty.

Odd to see Alex Hill in the list of credits. He was another musician who would have been more highly regarded had he lived into his thirties.

The oddest track was the Annie Ross performance which was undone by the poetry which seemed of it's time.

[Serial_Apologist]

Here's the link to Sunday evening's New generation Artists. I strongly recommend missing the first item by Saint-Saens. Guitarist Rob Luft's track, which is quite refreshing, starts at around the 11th minute:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002452q