Big Band Bonanza

[Old Grumpy]

Heads up from my local jazz website:

http://lance-bebopspokenhere.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/big-band-blitz_23.html

BBC television doesn’t do much jazz but when it does screen something it is invariably good. This weekend two programmes look at the British big band scene focusing on the role Blackpool played during WWII. On Saturday, July 25 on BBC2 (9:10pm) Dancing through the Blitz: Blackpool’s Big Band Story includes co-presenter Jools Holland with his band in the Empress Ballroom. Then on Sunday evening over on BBC4 (9:00pm) A Blackpool Big Band Boogie: Jools Holland and His Rhythm and Blues Orchestra hears Holland’s band in concert playing numbers associated with Basie, Woody Herman and others. Following that, at ten o’clock, Len Goodman’s Big Band Bonanza features more big band swing

OG

[antongould]

Saw the second half of the documentary OG and realised it was directed by my son's wife's father whatever relation to me that makes him, if any. Quite enjoyed it and did I recognise Benny Geen's son in there?

[Ian Thumwood]

I saw about 2/3 rds of the programme and was in two minds about it. No doubt Jools Holland is a fan of the music from this era and seems quite knowledgeable about it but the concert sections seemed pretty edited and therefore it was difficult to judge the performance.

It is interesting to see something like this as it did seem to echo opinions that were prevalent up to the1980s when I got in to jazz. Big Bands were my ticket in to jazz and I have always maintained a fascination with this format. I was initially impressed by Glenn Miller when I was about 12/13 yet it didn't take me too long to realise that bands like Goodman's and Tommy Dorsey were more interesting. I grew up listening to this kind of music but it was always the jazz element that appealed and it does seem now that the history books are being re-written with the serious analysis being accorded to the bands like Ellington, Basie, Henderson, Moten, Kirk and on to Dizzy where the music reached it's apogee. Even amongst the white bands, it is amazing how the reputations of the "genuine" jazz out-fits like Goodman and Herman have remained intact whereas that of the Millers, etc have diminished. What is strange is how the obscure Territory Bands have become more celebrated and the repertoire disseminated more widely by such diverse arists as Vinve Giordano and Steve Bernstein.

To encounter some of the comments last night was almost a throwback albeit it was good to hear Moten's band get some credit, even if it didn't mutate in to the Basie band as suggested and nor was the leader quite the radical it was suggested - he was effectively pressurised by Basie and Eddie Durham to re-model the band around 1932 as it was already quite out of date. Amazingly, I think the transformation was a major factor in the modernisation of jazz with it's more driving rhythm.

When it came to the British bands, I lost interest. It is really difficult to see anything pre-Swing era as being contemporaneous with what was going on in the States between 1925-1935 whereby big bands became a hot bed of creativity and at the forefront of making jazz modern. Something like Fletcher Henderson's "Queer Notions" could almost be considered the first avant garde jazz record. (Can't see George Russell being possible without this record having been recorded, for example. ) It is strange how Be-bop became seen as the liberating force in jazz yet I think the seeds for a more "radical" approach in jazz were sown by the big bands albeit the likes of the featured Mary Lou Williams, Ellington and Eddie Sauter with Norvo already had an ear towards the future nearly 10 years before Parker made his recording debut under his own name.

I enjoyed what I saw of the programme but maybe we should be looking at big band as a force for creativity as opposed to the more commercial / pop / nostalgia aspect?

[Old Grumpy]

I saw about 2/3 rds of the programme and was in two minds about it. No doubt Jools Holland is a fan of the music from this era and seems quite knowledgeable about it but the concert sections seemed pretty edited and therefore it was difficult to judge the performance.

Do you mean the Jools Holland Big Band recreations, Ian? I think they are to be broadcast tonight on BBC4.

OG

[Serial_Apologist]

When was this recorded, Ian? Before "Weedsmoker's Dream"? The whole-tone harmonisations in both cases show knowledge of Debussy entering the jazz vocabulary.

[clive heath]

Ian, I'm not sure home-grown jazz in the 1930s should cause you to switch off although this programmes presentation of it may well have done. I have two 78s of Spike Hughes and his Dance Band which I enjoy and some of the American sides referred to in the wiki extract below are on my site.

"Hughes' small recording group was one of the earliest artists signed to Decca Records in England, spanning the period from 1930 to 1933, including over 30 sessions. Originally billed as Spike Hughes and his Decca-Dents, he reportedly did not like the name and after three sessions was changed either "his Dance Orchestra" or "his Three Blind Mice" for smaller sessions. His recording career culminated in his visit to New York City where he arranged three historic recording sessions involving members of Benny Carter's and Luis Russell's orchestras with Coleman Hawkins and Henry "Red" Allen from Fletcher Henderson's band. These fourteen sides were mostly Hughes' own compositions. Though most were not released in the U.S. at the time, they have become known as classic jazz masterworks, and are still available on CD."

I found the programme pretty typical, far too much barely relevant e.g. Petula Clark who I love in the right context, Duke at his most portentious ! and people trying to describe what they were talking over.

Plenty of Spike on youtube but I couldn't find my 2 Decca sides.

[Alyn_Shipton]

I think I'm with Peter Ind on this one - this is what he shared with his FB friends:

Last night on UK TV - Jazz during the blitz and beyond. I watched fascinated viewing many performers of today expounding so knowledgeably about times they had never personally known. In particular Jules Holland has somehow become the spokesman for big band jazz of the war era, the representative of that past era for which he had no personal firsthand knowledge. Odd to me. Why didn’t they ask some of those musicians who actually played in those dance bands? I can’t be the only one left now [apart from the childstar Petula Clark] (at 87 and still playing) who was actually part of that blitz scene.

For those interested let me describe my experience as a musician to give you an idea. I began playing piano gigs in the London area in 1942 (I was 14). Some were local dances - incorporating the hit tunes of the day interspersed with the then obligatory music such as the Palais Glide; the Hokey Cokey; the Old fashioned Waltz etc. Mostly the music was the hit tunes; tunes that were broadcast over the radio and sometimes featured in films of the time.

This was the time when the GI’s began to arrive in the UK and until the end of the war, dances were held nightly in ballrooms and even in Village halls throughout the whole London area. It wasn’t only in central London or major service centres – like Blackpool; such dances where a general feature throughout the week. The daylight bombing raids had mostly ceased by then - the destruction of the Luftwaffe apparently too costly for Germany. By late 1941 the raids were mostly during the night - often in the early hours before dawn. Many firms had relocated outside of London proper. So dances were held not only in local halls but often in works canteens in the near countryside. I can remember being chased by a bull, whilst in my dinner suit and bow tie and scrambling through a hedge to avoid injury. I would frequently cycle sometimes to Denham or even Windsor; play a gig and then cycle (with dimmed lights because of the blackout) the twelve miles back again. This is how my music career began – I am sure it was the same for many young jazz musicians at that time.
I had learned to play the violin while still at school, and then began playing the piano - from what I had learned from the Smallwood’s Piano tutor. No college courses or tuition for us. I heard popular music first on the radio, then learnt to play the melody on the piano and finally worked out the harmony with the notated help of Smallwoods. This music book did not enlighten me as to the mystery of chord structure, but I soon learned that particular groups of notes formed the harmony I was searching for. By transposing this to various keys I found myself able to play a simple kind of stride piano which was what was needed in dance bands in those days. By late 1942 though only fourteen years old, I began playing piano at gigs quite regularly. Bearing in mind that virtually all men of eighteen or over were in the armed forces, any musical shortcomings of mine were often overlooked. The most important factor was that of being able to swing.

By the end of World War Two, I was firmly ensconced in the dance music milieu and playing virtually every night of the week. Not only was I playing with small groups - often quartets but in taking up the Double bass at sixteen I began to play with big bands. I did a year’s stint at what was then the Streatham Locarno, and sometimes played at Hammersmith Palais with the Lou Preager Band, by 1947 I began to play BBC broadcasts - At nineteen I really thought I had arrived. Many musicians had by then returned from military service. However there was still much work to be had. In those days there was never a shortage of gigs. Having left school at fourteen I had always maintained a “day gig” - as did many musicians, but at seventeen I finally relinquished such work, being too busy to do anything more than fulfill paid music employment.

[Serial_Apologist]

Thanks, Alyn, for reproducing Peter's great evocation of a time before we was born.

[Ian Thumwood]

In fairness to the BBC programme, it was more about social history as opposed to any proper, detailed analysis. I concur with Clive's comments about Spike Hughes as the recordings made in the US in 1933 marked a high point in jazz up to that time and demonstrated that the music was capable of emulating European classical music and following in the wake of the amazing developments of Duke Ellington. Not too enthused by Jool's credentials as an "authority" but wouldn't deny his right to express himself as a fan. Len Goodman's contribution is 100% down to nostalgia. Not convinced of the logic behind roping in Lucy Worsley even though I usually enjoy her slightly mischievous style of presentation and propensity towards the salacious.

I don't have any interest whatsoever in British dance bands but Spike Hughes always seemed to offer a "serious" perspective to orchestra / big band jazz that was otherwise absent as far as I was aware of in the UK assuming you discount Americans like Benny Carter who were working in the country in the same decade for a limited period.

The commercial aspects of the music, whether is it "sweet bands", crooners or vocal groups like "The Modernaires" always make me cringe and it is fair to say that there was a lot of trivial music recorded at that time too. However, I never cease to be amazed at the better, jazz orientated material where you can find much to be admired within the work of obscure bandleaders like Jesse Stone or Alphonso Trent let alone the innovations of bands like Moten, Henderson, Hines, Goodman, Herman and Basie, etc. It is incredible to hear the likes of Horace Henderson writing atonal stuff like "Queer Notions" in 1933 and then to think that there has been treatises of writing jazz by academics nearly ten years before that. I know Paul Whiteman wrote about jazz orchestration in 1926 and I think there was someone else before him as well -albeit probably not what would be called jazz in these days. I remember once reading an extract from prior to 1925 where a critic had suggested that the future of jazz would be dominated by writing which was pretty prescient for that time.

I enjoyed reading the extract by Peter Ind (under-estimated as a profound commentator on jazz , in my opinion) and it recalled the comments made by my late piano teacher. However, the latter was particularly scathing whenever the topic was brought up after lessons as I don't really think big bands had as much interest to him as smaller groups improvisation even thiugh he once played me a tape of a Kenton-esque "modernists" arrangement of "Lover " he had written and later had music of his performed by NYJO.

It is telling to hear the young students from the States perform in big bands these days where, technical prowess aside, the writing of big band arrangers is more respected and understood whether it is something by Ellington, Thad Jones (whose scores sound remarkably outside and bely their nearly 50 year old status) or Maria Schneider. For me, the problem in the UK is that big bands seem to be perhaps considered more as a nostalgia act as opposed to a vehicle for creative, jazz expression.

[Ian Thumwood]

S-A

I think this is the record you were referring to, "Chant of the weed." I agreed that this is an innovative arrangement but I think Gil Evans' transformation is absolutely stunning. I love Budd Johnson's playing on that track which simmers on a very slow heat.

[Ian Thumwood]

Gil:-

[Serial_Apologist]

Yes I thought so, Ian - well guessed even though I got the title wrong, (IIRC Humph mentioned it as being the nickname); and thanx for those 2 clips - marvellous stuff.

[antongould]

Thanks, Alyn, for reproducing Peter's great evocation of a time before we was born.

.....and from me Alyn ...... They should have moved beyond Pet Clark .......

[Alyn_Shipton]

Yes Petula Clark that well-known jazz singer (seen here with the Temps including the late lamented and much-missed Alan Cooper, clarinet, and Bill Greenow, alto)

[Alyn_Shipton]

PS the dude in the white suit is Ted Wood, brother of Ronnie...