Ken Vandermark

[Ian Thumwood]

I've been checking out Ken Vandermark's music having completely missed the KV5 when they were at their prime. I have one record with the saxophonist on but am still working my way around his work, knowing very little about it.

The music I have heard seems hugely impressive but I didn't realise he had polarised opinion until I read some critique earlier this week suggesting that he had perhaps received too much attention and recognition. It seems an odd criticism for a style of music with an extremely esoteric following and where the type of jazz he performs seem consistent and uncompromising. I'm waiting for "target or flag" to be delivered (on the strength that the line up also includes the excellent Jeb Bishop as well as the under-rated Mars Williams.)

Despite his high profile and recognition by such an unlikely champion as Branford Marsalis, Vandermark seems remarkably neglected or even taken for granted by some fans even though I think his music probably has more balls than most. It seems really relevant and genuine, without any attempt to be modish whatsoever.

Wondered if anyone else out there had checked out his music? (Jazzrook, perhaps?) What are the essential recordings?

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm not that convinced as to Vandermark's "radicalism" - which may be why Branford finds him acceptable.

[charles t]

Well, Ian - I do live in the States but the closest proximity I had to Ken V. was the time we drove by his fav. performance place - The Empty Bottle, on our visit to a Puerto Rican restaurant, a few years back.

Of the 50 or so, albums I've collected by Vandermark 5...School Days w/Atomic...etc. - these box-sets are noteworthy:

Alchemia - The Vandermark 5 - Krakow, Poland 2004 (12 CD's). The usual suspects, Dave Rempis (saxophones), Jeb Bishop,
tb, Tim Daisy, drums, Kent Kessler, bass.

(as a curiosity)...Resonance Ensemble, also recorded in Krakow (and Ukraine) in 2007 with Steve Swell on trombone this time and a sh*tfull of Europeans, in various small groups. Highlighted by the fine trumpet work of Magnus Broo. (10 CD's).

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

His Joe Harriot Project?


"Vandermark's staccato sax lines
suggest a Joe Harriott refracted
through the work of another short-
lived horn player, the immortal
Eric Dolphy. The sparse angular
attack is always executed with
meticulous control, free from any
trace of the excess or self-
indulgence that seems to mar other
contemporary exercises in
collective improvisation. Even the
fragmented "Shadows" remains
intensely lyrical, while the
defiantly looping "Straight Lines" is
reminiscent of the near-perfect
Oliver Nelson album, The Blues and
the Abstract Truth, in muted
uprising and subdued discord. Jeb
Bishop's quiet trombone solo on the
title track is one of the album's
simple highlights. The entirety of
Straight Lines revels in the glory of
revision: the giddy thrill of hearing
for the first time what the world
was formerly deaf to."


I haven't heard this for a while but I thought it impressive at the time.


BN.

[Alyn_Shipton]

I am a fan - made a World Service programme back in 2000 about the contemporary Chicago scene with various artists and interviewed Ken after a solo concert in the jazz record store run by Bob Keoster (who owns and runs Delmark). He played an excellent solo set (audience included Joe Jarman who was definitely into what he was doing) and then his KV5 played on the Chicago Festival. Never less than stimulating, and a lot of the points made in BN's pasted review were apparent in the band. Also heard him in Kongsborg, Norway, playing with Magnus Broo and members of Atomic in a sort of parallel universe to Resonance. This was also a great set, though mainly memorable because it took place immediately after Stuart Nicholson had given a talk in which he said that the European avant garde never collaborated with their American counterparts...I rather think KV and the band had a point to prove!

[Jazzrook]

I've been checking out Ken Vandermark's music having completely missed the KV5 when they were at their prime. I have one record with the saxophonist on but am still working my way around his work, knowing very little about it.

The music I have heard seems hugely impressive but I didn't realise he had polarised opinion until I read some critique earlier this week suggesting that he had perhaps received too much attention and recognition. It seems an odd criticism for a style of music with an extremely esoteric following and where the type of jazz he performs seem consistent and uncompromising. I'm waiting for "target or flag" to be delivered (on the strength that the line up also includes the excellent Jeb Bishop as well as the under-rated Mars Williams.)

Despite his high profile and recognition by such an unlikely champion as Branford Marsalis, Vandermark seems remarkably neglected or even taken for granted by some fans even though I think his music probably has more balls than most. It seems really relevant and genuine, without any attempt to be modish whatsoever.

Wondered if anyone else out there had checked out his music? (Jazzrook, perhaps?) What are the essential recordings?

Ian ~ I've only one album by The Vandermark 5 - a 2-CD set 'Free Jazz Classics Vols. 1 & 2'(ATAVISTIC ALP 137CD).
Some impressive versions of Ornette's 'Happy House', Cecil Taylor's 'Conquistador', Sun Ra's 'Saturn', Eric Dolphy's 'Gazzelloni', Archie Shepp's 'Wherever June Bugs Go' & Don Cherry's 'There Is The Bomb'.
Well worth investigating.

JR

[Ian Thumwood]

I'm not that convinced as to Vandermark's "radicalism" - which may be why Branford finds him acceptable.

This is the kind of comment that I've seen before and I find it strange that Vandermark's music can engender this negativity. As Bluesnik state, the Harriot album is supposed to be very impressive (not heard it) and a quick browse through his discography demonstrates an amazingly strong affinity and loyalty to the avant garde of the 1960's. I think this is the aspect of his playing that Branford Marsalis shares. i.e. an appreciation of avant garde jazz from the 1960s as opposed to "Improv." Marsalis' enthusiasm also stemmed from the amount of energy Vandermark's performances generate - something that is probably compatible to Charles Mingus. Given that his father was a jazz journalist, it is not surprising that Vandermark acquired a deep knowledge and appreciation for the music. The late Malachi Thompson wrote of him that "If the new jazz is an aesthetic dead end, how does this account for the saxophonist Ken Vandermark (who built his style of work on the Art Ensemble of Chicago and the AACM) winning the MacArthur Genius Award?" If you are getting those kind of plaudits from someone who was something of an authority on jazz, Ken Vandermark must be doing something right. Similarly is Charles has acquired 50-odd albums by the man, there must be something about this man's music that appeals and registers as being "genuine." (Thanks for the recommendations.)

To my ears, Ken Vandermark seems to be the antithesis of a lot of the jazz that is popular today. In a world of charlatans like Tigran, Neil Cowley and G-Go Penguin or where some labels have actively looked to pursue a more "European" perspective where all the rough edges of the music are removed, much of the contemporary jazz coming out of Chicago at the moment seems to have sprung directly out of the 1960's avant garde and by-passed all other movements that took place since the 1970's. Amazingly, their approach does not sound dated but, in contrast, somehow more "authentic" and, in that respective, perhaps more legitimate that the music produced by their contemporaries? I don't think that it is a matter of being "better than" but I do think that players like Vandermark are more in the genuine spirit of what jazz should be about as opposed the more cosmetic contemporary players I have mentioned. For me, a player like Vandermark separates the men from the boys both as far as fellow jazz musicians are concerned and also in respect of fans insofar as those who think "cutting edge" means a piano trio with a funny name.

[Ian Thumwood]

Ian ~ I've only one album by The Vandermark 5 - a 2-CD set 'Free Jazz Classics Vols. 1 & 2'(ATAVISTIC ALP 137CD).
Some impressive versions of Ornette's 'Happy House', Cecil Taylor's 'Conquistador', Sun Ra's 'Saturn', Eric Dolphy's 'Gazzelloni', Archie Shepp's 'Wherever June Bugs Go' & Don Cherry's 'There Is The Bomb'.
Well worth investigating.

JR

cheers - I was tempted by this one too but as I love Mars Williams' playing, I plumped for a set of originals. If it lives up to the expectations, I would imagine this is the one I will plump for next. Staggered to hear Bishop's guitar playing which is a bit like Sonny Sharrocks - at the moment he is easily my favourite contemporary trombone player.)

[Serial_Apologist]

Separating the men from the boys is precisely the kind of appraisal I would have expected from an avid Vandermark afficinado. There always seems a lot of bluster in the playing but not a lot of musical interest (for me). That said, it was through the admittedly impressive Joe Harriott tribute that his name first came my way, so I'll do my best to eat my words and listen anew to what stuff of his I have.

[Ian Thumwood]

Separating the men from the boys is precisely the kind of appraisal I would have expected from an avid Vandermark afficinado. There always seems a lot of bluster in the playing but not a lot of musical interest (for me). That said, it was through the admittedly impressive Joe Harriott tribute that his name first came my way, so I'll do my best to eat my words and listen anew to what stuff of his I have.

S-A

I feel that the kind of jazz than Ken Vandermark and his ilk are producing is invigorating the current jazz scene at least because it isn't tame. I agree, there is a lot of "bluster" in his player but , to me, this is precisely what jazz needs. I'm very much a notice when it comes to his music yet it is clear to me that his music is much more in the spirit of pre-1970's jazz than a good proportion of what is being produced today. I met a journalist from "Jazzwise" and his wife in Vienne (I often bump in to him) and we had a brief chat about the state of the younger talent at the festival and in jazz in general and there was a consensus that the "avant garde" was probably the area in jazz at the moment where the music is genuinely happening. I think that Vandermark's involvement in this during the late 1990s sowed the seeds that have led to this.

It is curious that you comments are not at all unique and there are quite a few detractors on the web too. My point was that this kind of music is so niche that I thought it would have appealed to everyone who is attracted to creative music yet the uncompromising approach he has does not mean there are detractors out there from the avant fraternity.

The clip I posted is pretty good, the alto player Dave Rempis playing a lot Ornette.

[Ian Thumwood]

"Target or flag" is an interesting album by an early edition of the V5 but it perhaps echoes some of SA's reservations. Vandermark is somewhat over-shadowed as soloist by the trombone of Jeb Bishop who is a bit like an "outside" Jack Teagarden. When the latter switches to guitar, it is almost as if he has two personalities as Bishop's complete grasp of the jazz tradition is usurped by the scuzz of the electric instrument which certainly comes more from a rock tradition than jazz.

I have to say that , despite the pieces being dedicated to the likes of Cecil Taylor and Derek Bailey, the music has moments which share the relaxed and confident feel of the kind of groups Ellington or his sidemen would produce in the 1950's. The themes may have a knotty quality about them and there are moments of free blowing, often unaccompanied, but there is something about the music which anchors it in to what could be described as "Mainstream / Modern." A lot of fans seem to comment on the "rock attitude" of the music and I can entirely understand this as it has a pugnacious quality about it.

I really like this group even though I am not convinced that they are as "avant garde" as they believe themselves to be. They can all play outside (Mars Williams , as his name suggests, seems to play permanently in this fashion) and are familiar with extended techniques yet, and this is the over-riding factor, the bass and drums of Kessler and Mulvenna are staggeringly "straight down the line" and anchor the music in an era that seems to pre-date 1998 when this was recorded. I think Mulvenna is almost a swing drummer and the "swinging" nature of the music is a huge part of it's identity.

Listening to the music in my car last night it is difficult not to be enthusiastic about this band and to recognise and appreciate the boisterous nature of the music they produce. For me, the best "avant garde jazz" is fully connected with jazz from earlier eras and the more is attempts to reflect Western Classic traditions, the greater it is at being at rick of being dull and worthy or, at worst, totally pointless. This is why a group like AEoC are so good. Vandermark's quintet offers an interesting spin. It thrives on an almost punk attitude whilst tipping it's hat to West Coast jazz in many respects. The band aren't quite as "avant garde" as I had imagined. That said, their more robust approach to jazz is difficult to resist and the music has an energy which is missing in so much contemporary jazz. I very much like their music even if a cynic might perceive their attempts as almost a Wynton-esque attempt to recast the avant garde from the 1960's. That is something that is too simplistic and is the music isn't quite an niche or esoteric as some fans of the avant garde might wish, it is carried out with an enthusiasm and drive that is too often absent these days.