Definition Of Jazz - Suggestion for Wikipedia Entry

[charles t]

Discovered this in a Sicilian novel (title really doesn't matter...same ol' Godfather crap):

"I once read an article about jazz by this guy in the Giornale di Sicilia...

He said jazz is like ...how do they say?...

Like coitus interruptus. They start a tune and it never ends..."

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Didn't Shelly Manne say, "Jazz is never playing the same thing once"?

Those craaazy drummers.

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

"jazz" - something generally not played by Norwegians?

[Serial_Apologist]

The sound of surprise.

(If only it were more often true! )

[Ian Thumwood]

I think that Sonny Rollins originally captured the spirit of jazz in the 20-60's absolutely spot on with that description but it has become something of a curse. The problem is that that in Rollins' heyday the "surprise" element really stemmed from the mechanics of improvisation so that the move from melody based improvisation through to the better understanding of harmony through to be-bop, modal and free improvisation all made the music unchartered an exciting. Jazz has still managed to develop and expand it's vocabulary since the music re-discovered itself in the 1980's yet I think the changes also had the detrimental effect of encouraging a lack of critical judgement in some areas of the press which now encourages the new as opposed to really getting to grips with what is inspirational.

Someone posted a link to a Danish group called "Girls in airports" which matched dance rhythms with Ayler-esque freak outs and the comments on Youtube were all very positive. I must admit that I didn't mind what they produced but it is pretty disposable in the end. The music is catchy and not unpleasant whilst not really being a "sound of surprise." You can hear the band here:-

In contrast I have been listening to Steve Lehman's exceptional "Mise en abime" which is genuinely a "sound of surprise" with unusual instrumentation, odd time signatures and micro-tonal writing. There isn't a great deal of variety yet Lehman's concept is extremely original even if there are elements of Steve Coleman in the groove. At the same time, I would seriously recommend this to Bluesnik as Lehman's music seems like an extension from Jackie McLean's 60's groups (I believe that he was a former pupil.) It takes a while to get in to as Lehman's concept is as original as the likes of George Russell, Lennie Tristano, Anthony Braxton or Steve Coleman. The music Lehmans writes sounds like no other's and it is clearly fresh, different and offering a novel approach to what jazz can be. Some of the rhythms come from contemporary electronic music yet it is neither rock or funk orientated and takes it's cure more from Classical music.

I wish more musician's producing something like this would get more attention. It really makes a lot of the contemporary jazz that is lauded in the press seem extremely tame. It is interesting that the more avant garde jazz groups seem to making the most interesting music at the moment whereas the cut and paste efforts over dance grooves like "Girls at airports" don't really cut it as "serious " jazz.

At the same time as this group was being lauded on All about jazz

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I think that Sonny Rollins originally captured the spirit of jazz in the 20-60's absolutely spot on with that description but it has become something of a curse. The problem is that that in Rollins' heyday the "surprise" element really stemmed from the mechanics of improvisation so that the move from melody based improvisation through to the better understanding of harmony through to be-bop, modal and free improvisation all made the music unchartered an exciting. Jazz has still managed to develop and expand it's vocabulary since the music re-discovered itself in the 1980's yet I think the changes also had the detrimental effect of encouraging a lack of critical judgement in some areas of the press which now encourages the new as opposed to really getting to grips with what is inspirational.

Someone posted a link to a Danish group called "Girls in airports" which matched dance rhythms with Ayler-esque freak outs and the comments on Youtube were all very positive. I must admit that I didn't mind what they produced but it is pretty disposable in the end. The music is catchy and not unpleasant whilst not really being a "sound of surprise." You can hear the band here:-

In contrast I have been listening to Steve Lehman's exceptional "Mise en abime" which is genuinely a "sound of surprise" with unusual instrumentation, odd time signatures and micro-tonal writing. There isn't a great deal of variety yet Lehman's concept is extremely original even if there are elements of Steve Coleman in the groove. At the same time, I would seriously recommend this to Bluesnik as Lehman's music seems like an extension from Jackie McLean's 60's groups (I believe that he was a former pupil.) It takes a while to get in to as Lehman's concept is as original as the likes of George Russell, Lennie Tristano, Anthony Braxton or Steve Coleman. The music Lehmans writes sounds like no other's and it is clearly fresh, different and offering a novel approach to what jazz can be. Some of the rhythms come from contemporary electronic music yet it is neither rock or funk orientated and takes it's cure more from Classical music.

I wish more musician's producing something like this would get more attention. It really makes a lot of the contemporary jazz that is lauded in the press seem extremely tame. It is interesting that the more avant garde jazz groups seem to making the most interesting music at the moment whereas the cut and paste efforts over dance grooves like "Girls at airports" don't really cut it as "serious " jazz.

At the same time as this group was being lauded on All about jazz

Ian, I did mention Lehman a few months ago! And his jackie Mclean connection. He also did a very good late period interview with him.


I do try to sort of keep up with the program!

BN.

[Tenor Freak]

It's easy. The definition I use is "music that nobody listens to".

[clive heath]

I'd always thought that.."The magic of improvisation was what Whitney Balliett called "the sound of surprise". Whitney Balliett was the longtime jazz reviewer for the New Yorker." but maybe he borrowed the phrase for his book. Alternatively: jazz is when the performers are having more fun than the audience.

[Ian Thumwood]

Clive
I was listening to some of the Vince Giordano "Nighthawk" tracks on Youtube last night and it is interesting that a lot of the music this group performs would have been considered popular at the time. That said, it much have been tremendously exciting to hear jazz in the late 20's / early 30's when ideas about orchestration were being worked out and no one really had an idea of any difference between serious and commercial. With the passage of time, it is fascinating how the commercial recordings seems to be treated more seriously - no small credit for which is due to Gunther Schuller.

The recordings of the 20's still have a "shock" value and the earthiness of the music must have been a huge draw for the audience. What is interesting is that there was little critical appraisal of jazz until the 1930's and when it arrived, it came more from Europe. You could almost argue that jazz what at it's most "potent" when there was only very insignificant media coverage around to offer informed opinions let alone dictate taste. These days jazz is far more easily available and there is a whole industry built around the music to report on it. Small wonder that it is so difficult to be "surprising."

I think the best thing about jazz is that it still offers a "counter-culture" to popular music whilst increasing the technical influence of classical music. There is a lot of terrific jazz being produced at the moment but equally true that too much media attention is given to music that is modish and unlikely to build any legacy. It is frustrating how venues and festivals seem increasingly looking for something "different" and in doing so, often tap in to stuff that is really onn the margins of jazz whilst a musician like Henry Threadgill can be continuing to produce music that respects the heritage whilst offering a genuine approach but be over-looked. "The sound of surprise" is out there but there is a lazy tendency not to look too hard and a propensity to turn to twenty-something players offering a more "savvy" approach to contemporary culture whilst the music doesn't have the depth of more "genuine" players. I'd choose Lehman over "Girls in airports" every time but the audience demographic in the Youtube clips is telling.