Ritualistic frequencies, wouldn't you know!

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  • Ian Thumwood
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4242

    #16
    The saw was played by Roy Brooks who was more familar as a drummer with the lkes of Woody Shaw but who later suffered from some quite severe mental health issues. There was a live set by a quintet he led in 1970 that got some terrific reviews when it was released. Not a name too familiar to me. I thunk Michael Myers is a horror film character, not genuine artist. Not my thing, I am afraid.

    I think I would find it difficult to watch someone play a saw having watched the Reg Prescott sketches that the late Kenny Everett use to do. It did make me think whether SA would be more accepting of a saw as a "found" instrument in Improviseg Music as opposed to a vehicle for jazz expression ? I have to say that I have seen the likes of Hermeto Pascoal play a kettle but tend to find these quirky use of instruments a bit irritating. Years ago I saw the English pianist used squeaky toys in a set with the Italian Instabile Orchestra at a gig in Basingstoke. A bloke behind me made a comment that it was better than hearing someone playing Horace Silver material at an earlier concert he had been. I walked out after the first set.

    Picking up on Max Roach employing a "turntable"like sound, from recollection he did make a comparison between Be-bop and Rap insofar that both were radical forms of Black expression that sort to seperate Afro-American culture from the safer white norms. He was sympathetic to Rap and Hip-hop which part of me can understand whereas another part is perplexed that a drummer who was so important in freeing up the beat in jazz would admire a style of music with the sense of phrasing / rhythm / beat is so predictable, I would have thought that the "social" element was right up his street whilst I would be surprised if the musical element really offered the same challenges as playing with Bird, Monk, Taylor and Braxton.

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    • Serial_Apologist
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 37851

      #17
      Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post
      I think I would find it difficult to watch someone play a saw having watched the Reg Prescott sketches that the late Kenny Everett use to do. It did make me think whether SA would be more accepting of a saw as a "found" instrument in Improvised Music as opposed to a vehicle for jazz expression ?
      I wasn't unaccepting of its use in the Max Roach group. I didn't know was it was until Alyn said. And yes I have seen it used in improv performance. John Stevens had one in one version of the SME in its early days.

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      • Ian Thumwood
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 4242

        #18
        Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
        I wasn't unaccepting of its use in the Max Roach group. I didn't know was it was until Alyn said. And yes I have seen it used in improv performance. John Stevens had one in one version of the SME in its early days.
        Fair enough. Maybe more acceptable in Improv than jazz, I would think ?

        If anything, the origins of this piece of music are even more remarkable than a muscial saw. I had never heardany of CLementi;s music until about 3 weeks ago but incredible to discover that this early composition was written near Blandford Forum,.

        Muzio Filippo Vincenzo Francesco Saverio Clementi (Roma, 23 gennaio 1752 – Evesham, 10 marzo 1832) è stato un compositore e pianista italiano, uno dei primi ...

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        • Alyn_Shipton
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 777

          #19
          I don’t think Ian’s been doing his jazz research. Nothing to do with ‘improv’ there’s a musical saw on Ma Rainey’s June 1926 session with Albert Wynn that included ‘Down in the Basement’. Doc Cheatham plays soprano sax on it (his only recording as a reed player). He told me ‘I’ve never heard anything so bad in all my life’ but he continued to listen to it occasionally just to hear his sax playing!

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          • Old Grumpy
            Full Member
            • Jan 2011
            • 3653

            #20
            It came, I heard, it conquered...

            ...just been exploring some "musical" saw stuff on Spotify - had to turn it off - talk about caterwauling!

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            • Ian Thumwood
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 4242

              #21
              Originally posted by Alyn_Shipton View Post
              I don’t think Ian’s been doing his jazz research. Nothing to do with ‘improv’ there’s a musical saw on Ma Rainey’s June 1926 session with Albert Wynn that included ‘Down in the Basement’. Doc Cheatham plays soprano sax on it (his only recording as a reed player). He told me ‘I’ve never heard anything so bad in all my life’ but he continued to listen to it occasionally just to hear his sax playing!
              Thanks for the "heads up."

              I have checked this out on Youtube and you can listen to it here..

              This song was recorded in 1926 and released on Paramount 12395 as the 'A' side.


              I don't think Doc Cheaham's assessment is far wrong. It sounds like a budget version of a theremin but not quite the Beach Boys.

              Do the teeth still exist on the saw ?

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              • Tenor Freak
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 1062

                #22
                Here is the contemporary version of the musical saw - though it's closer to the version used by the Beach Boys on Pet Sounds


                all words are trains for moving past what really has no name

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                • Tenor Freak
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 1062

                  #23
                  And one specially for Bluesnik, Rick Beato interviewed banjo master Béla Fleck.

                  Béla Fleck is a renowned American banjo player, often considered one of the most innovative and banjo players of all time. Born on July 10, 1958, in New York...
                  all words are trains for moving past what really has no name

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                  • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 4316

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Tenor Freak View Post
                    And one specially for Bluesnik, Rick Beato interviewed banjo master Béla Fleck.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xNR2VHOzcY&t=2179s
                    I have seen the light...invest now, reap later...

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                    • Serial_Apologist
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 37851

                      #25
                      Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View Post

                      I have seen the light...invest now, reap later...

                      http://youtube.com/shorts/K4ESx8z0iBA?feature=shared
                      It takes a lot of pluck to play.

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                      • Ian Thumwood
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 4242

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Tenor Freak View Post
                        And one specially for Bluesnik, Rick Beato interviewed banjo master Béla Fleck.

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xNR2VHOzcY&t=2179s
                        Bluesnik will love this too. A bit like "Amelie" meets "Deliverance,".





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