Lady Gaga swings JRR - Today

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

No, not making this up, the last track on today's JRR (23d) is Lady Gagaaaaaaaa singing "Lush Life".

First they sent in the banjos, then the Annie Lennox Death Squad, now La Ga Ga....

I think Alyn should write out "Johnny Hartman" 1000 times. At least. In stone.

BN.

Actually, doing some Utubing on this fab item (long tongs and asbestos gloves), she has quite a strong voice if "touched"/torched? by Shirley Bassey down Cardiff Bay. When shouting last orders.

[Serial_Apologist]

Not the ventriloquist's "Ga Ga Glack Sheep", which presumably would be politically incorrect for JRR.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Not the ventriloquist's "Ga Ga Glack Sheep", which presumably would be politically incorrect for JRR.

Just seen that Joe Lavano is on this duo jazz album. Is it that expensive to have your swimming pool cleaned? How big's his pool? Next door's too?

Well, I am certainly requesting something sparkling from Dicky Pride (sic), the Brit Ga Ga Sheik of Shake, for a future program. His " jazz" album with the Heath band was also bloody awful so should sit very well in the new catholic format.

BN.

[Jazzrook]

No, not making this up, the last track on today's JRR (23d) is Lady Gagaaaaaaaa singing "Lush Life".

First they sent in the banjos, then the Annie Lennox Death Squad, now La Ga Ga....

I think Alyn should write out "Johnny Hartman" 1000 times. At least. In stone.

BN.

Actually, doing some Utubing on this fab item (long tongs and asbestos gloves), she has quite a strong voice if "touched"/torched? by Shirley Bassey down Cardiff Bay. When shouting last orders.

All those great, neglected & rare jazz recordings languishing in the BBC vaults and someone requests Lady Gaga(and gets it played!).
Did enjoy the Wardell Gray and Mingus piano tracks, though.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

All those great, neglected & rare jazz recordings languishing in the BBC vaults and someone requests Lady Gaga(and gets it played!).
Did enjoy the Wardell Gray and Mingus piano tracks, though.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. Last night I played/watched this again....Bill et Monika.


"An oddity in Bill Evans ' catalog, this 1964 date
places the Swedish jazz vocalist Monica
Zetterlund alongside the Evans Trio (with Chuck
Israels on bass and Larry Bunker on drums). Still,
the match is seemingly perfect. Evans ' lyricism is
well suited to a breezy, sophisticated songstress
like Zetterlund . There is an iciness on this
recording, but it is difficult to decipher if it is in
the performance or in the engineering where she
seems to be way out in front of the band, when
she was really in the middle of all the musicians
in the studio. This is a minor complaint, however,
as the tune selection and decorum of these
sessions are quite lovely. From the opener "Come
Rain or Come Shine" through the Swedish ballad
"A Beautiful Rose" and the achingly gorgeous
delivery of "Once Upon a Summertime," it's as if
Zetterlund were destined to sing with Evans for a
career instead of an album." - All Music.

There has been a major change in the course and weather at JRR. Iceberg rammed.

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

Whilst I don't agree with the requester Herbie Lockwood comment would have to include Paloma Faith in a list of "celebrities / singers" I find intensely irritating and who I would like to see taken out and shot (regardless of the association of Guy Barker) the negative comments about the Lady Ga-Ga track are a bit wide of the mark. I think Bluesnik was right to edit his initial comment. (Even though I would add that I find Johnny Hartman to have had a great voice yet his record with John Coltrane sounds really dated - the singing on that doesn't really have much to do with jazz.)

Oddly, the Lady Ga Ga issue came up on a debate on the All About Forum website. From the track selected, I thought she had a really good voice and was amazed at how good her phrasing and use of dynamics were. It is a great song anyway but the version of "Lush Life" was much better than I had imagined. On the basis of that track it certainly has a place on JRR. Not too fussed with her "original" material but I don't consider myself a pop fan. However, it was pointed out to one forum poster whose starting point was that she was "sh/te" that she actually had a pretty solid musical education and had worked in musical theatre as well as having a career as a songwriter before she established herself as a pop singer. It was suggested that she was a "non-musician" and then a poster managed to dig a clip from Youtube which showed she had pretty good chops as a pianist. I don't think she disgraced herself by any means performing that track requested and it was a million times better that the Caro Emerald record played a couple of months ago. I felt that track was woeful and the request for Annette Henshaw several weeks later made an interesting comparison with the Dutch singer being a pop-version of the latter.

I think that this is an interesting debate. I do agree totally with Jazzrook regarding the 1000's of jazz musicians who are overlooked and I think a lot of us on this board owe him a debt of gratitude for his regular requests which have certainly broadened my palette. I think that a request programme should be democratic and therefore didn't find the Ga Ga track any more objectionable that a lot of the Trad that gets requested. (The Romanian pianist was also very good.)

It is intriguing what gets requested. The most popular requested seem to be from 1950-70. ECM is seemingly a "cult label" yet the music rarely features on JRR. When contemporary stuff get requested it is not particularly challenging. It is odd that this seems to get reflected whenever I go to the jazz festival in France. The modish stuff is extremely popular and it has quite a limited shelf life. I think that the audience for jazz seems to be getting increasingly conservative with there being little appetite for anything remotely edgy. At the same time, you get the baffling situation where the music of blues musician Frank Stokes is now being used to advertise MacDonalds!

[Serial_Apologist]

I think that the audience for jazz seems to be getting increasingly conservative with there being little appetite for anything remotely edgy.

I'm left wondering if that reflects the age of JRR requesters. If they are nearer or in my generation, those making requests to a programme with a reputation for being more anchored at the Trad/mainstream end, apart from contributers to this forum their tastes would tend to be those of their formative years, I would suppose.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I'm left wondering if that reflects the age of JRR requesters. If they are nearer or in my generation, those making requests to a programme with a reputation for being more anchored at the Trad/mainstream end, apart from contributers to this forum their tastes would tend to be those of their formative years, I would suppose.

My understanding is that LA Ga's career was on the skids, she was feeling resigned and defeated and Tony Bennett advised her to cut a 'jazz album', the well travelled marketing road back to critical OKness. Well, why not.

My concern, well that's an overstatement, is that JRR itself has progressively spun off its axis in a vain attempt to get anyone to listen, infant, young or former RAF 633 bomber pilots. Diminishing returns. But too late now. Its Feked. How very Labour.

Ga Ga Gone with the wind.


BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

I think that the audience for post-Ornette styles of jazz is extremely small. When I say Ornette about7-8 years ago, the gig was 1/3 full and similar endeavours to out edgier stuff on an Vienne got relegated to the post-midnight venue. Even this has been reduced and I haven't seen anything remotely "outside" since Bunky Green / Rudresh Mahantrappa or Steve Potts. The latter was about 10 years ago. the only problem for me was that by 2.00 am in the morning, it was difficult to stay awake.

The best thing about JRR is that you get a range of styles. Personally, I want to hear a comprehensive selection of jazz ranging from 1917 - 2015 but like it best of all when I hear something new and unfamiliar. A lot of the current jazz does seem a bit too safe and listening to Jazz Line Up you get a thoroughly distorted view of jazz being dominated by white musicians or singers. I think that Claire Martin does have a bias towards singers and the programme does seem to reflect her rather narrow view of jazz. More outside groups seems to produce longer performances which might not fit the format of JRR but I think it is the "difficult" nature of some kinds of jazz that prevents it being popular.

It is strange that JRR has the most demographic profile of all the jazz programmes on Radio 3 yet manages to attract the most debate.

Where is Caluum, btw?

[Ian Thumwood]

My understanding is that LA Ga's career was on the skids, she was feeling resigned and defeated and Tony Bennett advised her to cut a 'jazz album', the well travelled marketing road back to critical OKness. Well, why not.


BN.

I don't follow pop music but Ga Ga must be pushing 30 so I can appreciate it if her career was on the skids. However, the result was actually far better than I had anticipated. Imagine how pi55ed off jazz fans might have been if she had started singing like that and then went in to pop!

It is amusing when pop artists dabble in jazz. It really gets the hackles of most jazz fans but the records aren't intended for the same market of people who are going to snap up Blue Notes, ECM's or Delmarks. Sometimes the results aren't at all bad. The record Herbie made with Shorter where Tina Turner sang was brilliant.

[cloughie]

I don't follow pop music but Ga Ga must be pushing 30 so I can appreciate it if her career was on the skids. However, the result was actually far better than I had anticipated. Imagine how pi55ed off jazz fans might have been if she had started singing like that and then went in to pop!

It is amusing when pop artists dabble in jazz. It really gets the hackles of most jazz fans but the records aren't intended for the same market of people who are going to snap up Blue Notes, ECM's or Delmarks. Sometimes the results aren't at all bad. The record Herbie made with Shorter where Tina Turner sang was brilliant.

I think there are some very good tracks on Lady Gaga's Tony Bennett and look forward to her doing some more proper songs. Among others Chaka Khan and Sheen Easton have stepped up from their more traditional roles to surprise.

[Ian Thumwood]

Cloughie

I think it is interesting when it comes to musicianship amongst pop acts. American acts seem far better at making the transition in to jazz than British artists. It was a surprise seeing that Flea from Red Hot Chilli Peppers had such a pedigree when information was picked up on a thread a few months ago. Twenty years ago I went to a TV performance where Mica Paris was performing with Julian Joseph and she seemed to have great difficulty performing jazz and at east one false start. I've seen Chaka Khan perform live (I think she had Joe Sample on piano) and she was really professional. I have also been quite surprised by Cyndi Lauper when I saw her and then discovered that she had started her career performing with a blues band. Then, of course, there are bands like Chic and Earth, Wind and Fire whose personal are populated by jazz musicians with the music being well performed and a surprising amount of space for improvisation. The weirdest conversation I've heard amongst jazz musicians was members of the Vanguard Jazz Orchestra raving about Barbara Streisand with whom a number of them had worked. I was staggered that they were so enthusiastic about her as opposed to talking about other jazz musicians.

Hearing "jazz" singers perform live can be a quite revealing. Several years ago I heard Melody Gardot perform live at the time she was getting a lot of press from Jazz FM. There was dry ice used in her performance which put me off immediately and gave an impression of needing to mask the fact that the music was pretty weak. As a live act, she was pretty hopeless. Then again, I've heard the likes of Dianne Reeves, Kurt Elling and Shirley Horn who have been genuine musicians in addition to their "star " status.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

There is a huge difference between a jazz singer, someone who really understands the music, feels it and is part of the idiom, and someone who "sings like jazz", i.e. adopts the mannerisms and surface like a coat. Rather like the clowns on TV talent shows who "do" Sinatra or "swing". All you need is the suit it appears.

It does huge disservice to pretend otherwise. You keep adding water to wine, it doesn't make it more agreeable, its just coloured water.

BN.

Btw, Marcus Belgrave died a short while ago. Some very good obits around that I can no longer be arsd to copy.

[cloughie]

Cloughie

I think it is interesting when it comes to musicianship amongst pop acts. American acts seem far better at making the transition in to jazz than British artists. It was a surprise seeing that Flea from Red Hot Chilli Peppers had such a pedigree when information was picked up on a thread a few months ago. Twenty years ago I went to a TV performance where Mica Paris was performing with Julian Joseph and she seemed to have great difficulty performing jazz and at east one false start. I've seen Chaka Khan perform live (I think she had Joe Sample on piano) and she was really professional. I have also been quite surprised by Cyndi Lauper when I saw her and then discovered that she had started her career performing with a blues band. Then, of course, there are bands like Chic and Earth, Wind and Fire whose personal are populated by jazz musicians with the music being well performed and a surprising amount of space for improvisation. The weirdest conversation I've heard amongst jazz musicians was members of the Vanguard Jazz Orchestra raving about Barbara Streisand with whom a number of them had worked. I was staggered that they were so enthusiastic about her as opposed to talking about other jazz musicians.

Hearing "jazz" singers perform live can be a quite revealing. Several years ago I heard Melody Gardot perform live at the time she was getting a lot of press from Jazz FM. There was dry ice used in her performance which put me off immediately and gave an impression of needing to mask the fact that the music was pretty weak. As a live act, she was pretty hopeless. Then again, I've heard the likes of Dianne Reeves, Kurt Elling and Shirley Horn who have been genuine musicians in addition to their "star " status.

I am surprised that you are surprised about Streisand. I have rated her for many a year and there a tracks on her first six albums from the sixties and her 80s Broadway album which are excellent. Her recent duets album and some of her pairings do her no service but her Love is the Answer album, particularly, the second disc with Diana Krall and a quintet backing her is very good. Streisand has seasoned skills, timing and an ability lacking in many singers, singing in tune! Dianne Reeves, I agree is excellent and there are are others I rate, Cyndi Lauper, Joni Mitchell, Roberta Flack, Linda Ronstadt, a few in a fairly long list.

[Ian Thumwood]

I agree about watering down of jazz but I think it is worth while acknowledging that a good number of American singers will have started their careers singing in churches and are likely to have been exposed to a far wider range of music than you might assume. Freyda Payne and Patti Austin are two that spring to mind. Austin gives the impression of being more jazz than pop but both started their careers in jazz before having more commercial success. I think Payne was signed to Inpulse.

I'm not suggesting that LGG could easily transform herself in to a jazz career but the version of "lush life" was actually really good. I was absolutely amazed and it was a thousand times more convincing than the attempts of Blue note recording artist Annie Lennox which was rightly pulled to pieces by the critics are being pretty uninspired and unnecessary. I wouldn't want to buy the record in question but the performance was pretty difficult to criticise.

I think that the subject of jazz singers provokes a lot of old prejudices which often have little to do with the music. The problem with singers is that they are less likely to stand up to the passage of time as the Annette Hanshaw track demonstrated. The "greats" like Ella, Billie, Sarah and Betty Carter are forever and I also rate Sinatra despite not being a fan and his music only being on the periphery of jazz. Someone like Ray Charles is also good but not everything he did was jazz and , of the male singers, it is the more blues orientated ones like Jimmy Witherspoon and Walter Brown that appeal. Jimmy Rushing is probably my favourite.

These days we are blessed with some really brilliant jazz singers in the likes of Dianne Reeves (as good as Ella / Sarah in my opinion - still one of the best jazz artists to see in performance where her shows are totally compelling), Cassandra Wilson, Gretchen Parlato, Kurt Elling and Norma Winstone ably demonstrate the gulf between the genuine and singers who like to sing standards.