Blue Note - time to seriously re-appraise this label?

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  • Ian Thumwood
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4361

    The other curious thing about the Donald Byrd album is just how under-par Hank Mobley is on this record. After hearing Mobley on Kenny Dorham's "Whistle stop" I have been listening to him with more interest. It is intriguing just how erratic he could be on disc. My first encounter with him was on his own "Roll call" which is another mundane, Hard Bop session that I don't feel is too remarkable. Mobley is outshone by the young Freddie Hubbard but, if you want to hear the sophomore Mr H, then the best tenor combination was with Tina Brooks, in my opinion. The writing on "Roll call" is particularly lazy and I think this is a major short-coming with his output.

    That said, the latest Blue Note I acquired is "Workout" which is a pretty mainstream record where Mobley is very much playing in the same territory / groove as on some of the tracks he made with Miles on "Someday my prince will come" which is uneven to say the least. However, I think Mobley does everything right on "Workout" and this is a really good, solid record. Much of the appeal comes from the rhythm section and I am convinced that Philly Joe Jones' drumming is instrumental to pushing Mobley to play better. It also has Wynton Kelly on board and I am increasingly finding his presence to be a significant contributing to making many hard bop sessions successful. I may have to try "Soul Station" next having previously captured "No room for squares" where Andrew Hill's appearance also serves as a stimulus to Mobley.

    I have previously been very negative about Hank Mobley but I now feel he could sometimes be right on the money. However, I do find his playing to be inconsistent and he can sound anonymous on some of the old Horace Silver records as well as the decidedly dated "New conception" which I feel is one of the weakest albums on the label and only saved by Herbie Hancock from being a bit of a stinker. By contrast, the intentions of "Work out" are far more modest and whilst the material could be argued to be quite simplistic, the music really works and Mobley sounds inspired. I'm not quite sure I buy the "middle weight champion" myth about his reputation yet when he was on form and the drugs didn't kick in, he soars above the sleep-walking performances that mar his wok with Miles.

    Comment

    • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 4353

      I think Mobley is a hugely intelligent player, the superb melodic sense, the note displacements, the often fractional shifts of time. "This I dig of you" from Soul Station is utterly glorious, for the tune, Hank and Wynton. And indeed Blakey and Paul. Kelly's spiralling opening solo is just a joy.

      Chkout "Another Workout" as per Workout but minus Grant Green, who I admit rises to the occasion. For once. Not the half a day doodling on three notes.

      Mentioned it before but Blakey''s two volume "Jazz Corner of the World_, live with Hank and Freddie is stunning. A very fierce and l intense Mobley who had obviously picked up on his friend Le Trane. Shades of early Wayne.

      BN.


      I picked up Kenny Burrell's "An audience at the Five Spot" in Paris, (Bluenote c. 1958) with Bobby Timmons fighting the club piano and TINA BROOKS no less on tenor. Not a lot of live Tina around. Andy Summers of Police fame said that Kenny's solo on Lover Man was the greatest jazz guitar ever. Not sure of that but it is tres tasty.

      Now back to les onions.

      Comment

      • Ian Thumwood
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 4361

        I think that someone like Joe Henderson can be seen as the next stage on from Hank Mobley. When it comes to intelligent playing, Henderson is always on the money whereas Mobley can go in to auto-pilot. It is intriguing reading the reviews of the later Blue Notes where Mobley's playing is supposed to have become harder edged and generally not so favoured. I haven't heard "Turnaround" but this is now only available for serious bucks. I would be intrigued to hear his with the looser Billy Higgins in drums. Philly Joe seems the best match of the drummers as his style was a sparky contrast to the tenor. Blakey seems more bombastic but the interaction or even feel on "Roll call" really suffers because of him. There needs to be a contrast for Mobley to be interesting. Blakey seems too comfortable . I'm too enamoured with Jones' drumming to be that objective.

        Comment

        • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 4353

          Not a fan of "Turnaround". The title track is a boring/ hokey One for Albert/Sidewinder clone. The rest is OK but not remarkable. Hank's "Slice off the top", written in prison, arranged by Duke Pearson for a larger group with Spaulding etc is a far more interesting one. Bluenote shelved it the time for commercial reasons. A harder Mobley tone emerging. "Straight no Filter" is a three session compilation - some excellent tracks with Tyner, Morgan and Hubbard. Hank goes model. The last few Bluenote sessions have some very good moments but you sense that Mobley was by now searching for something different. "Life" got in the way.

          BN.

          Comment

          • Jazzrook
            Full Member
            • Mar 2011
            • 3167

            Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View Post
            I think Mobley is a hugely intelligent player, the superb melodic sense, the note displacements, the often fractional shifts of time. "This I dig of you" from Soul Station is utterly glorious, for the tune, Hank and Wynton. And indeed Blakey and Paul. Kelly's spiralling opening solo is just a joy.

            Chkout "Another Workout" as per Workout but minus Grant Green, who I admit rises to the occasion. For once. Not the half a day doodling on three notes.

            Mentioned it before but Blakey''s two volume "Jazz Corner of the World_, live with Hank and Freddie is stunning. A very fierce and l intense Mobley who had obviously picked up on his friend Le Trane. Shades of early Wayne.

            BN.


            I picked up Kenny Burrell's "An audience at the Five Spot" in Paris, (Bluenote c. 1958) with Bobby Timmons fighting the club piano and TINA BROOKS no less on tenor. Not a lot of live Tina around. Andy Summers of Police fame said that Kenny's solo on Lover Man was the greatest jazz guitar ever. Not sure of that but it is tres tasty.

            Now back to les onions.
            Don't have the album but Tina Brooks also appears on Kenny Burrell's 1958 'Blue Lights' Vols. 1 & 2 with Junior Cook and the underrated trumpeter Louis Smith:

            Comment

            • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 4353

              Picked up "No Room for Squares" today. Haven't heard this one for years, Wonderful stuff, Mobley, Morgan and Andrew Hill et Philly J. Le PJJ was made for stuff like this. Masterful.

              wasnassssstoooolike as we say in Bopville,

              BN.

              Comment

              • Ian Thumwood
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 4361

                Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View Post
                Picked up "No Room for Squares" today. Haven't heard this one for years, Wonderful stuff, Mobley, Morgan and Andrew Hill et Philly J. Le PJJ was made for stuff like this. Masterful.

                wasnassssstoooolike as we say in Bopville,

                BN.
                These sessions were originally shelved by Blue Note. There are two sessions on this disc but I like the one which incorporates Andrew Hill best as this is makes an unusual combination with Mobley.

                Last Thursday I rehearsed several Joe Henderson tunes with some friends as I was given a play-a-long book of his music for a present a few weeks back and hadn't had much chance to play it. many of the tunes I like turn out to be modified blues but I especially like "Out of the night." "Page One" is a brilliant disc and, for my money, McCoy Tyner's solo on "La Mensha" is probably his finest.

                Comment

                • Stanfordian
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 9361

                  Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View Post
                  Picked up "No Room for Squares" today. Haven't heard this one for years, Wonderful stuff, Mobley, Morgan and Andrew Hill et Philly J. Le PJJ was made for stuff like this. Masterful.

                  wasnassssstoooolike as we say in Bopville,

                  BN.
                  Hiya Bluesnik,

                  Mobley's style in 'No Room for Squares' is just begining to sound a touch modal for my taste. Whereas 'Rollcall', 'Soul Station', 'Mobley's Workout' & 'Another Workout' is the Mobley groove that suits me best. At the moment I'm also wollowing in Ike Quebec, Joe Henderson & Tina Brooks.
                  Last edited by Stanfordian; 30-08-15, 09:50.

                  Comment

                  • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 4353

                    Originally posted by Stanfordian View Post
                    Hiya Bluesnik,

                    Mobley's style in 'No Room for Squares' is just begining to sound a touch modal for my taste. Whereas 'Rollcall', 'Soul Station', 'Mobley's Workout' & 'Another Workout' is the Mobley groove that suits me best. At the moment I'm also wollowing in Ike Quebec, Joe Henderson & Tina Brooks.
                    Yes agreed, but I rather go for modal and the "Squares" date with Hill has a darkness that I really like. Lee plays wonderfully and Hank's solo on the opening track has some almost laconic interruptions by him that I have never heard him play before or since. Brilliant band not forgetting John Ore who played with Elmo Hope and Monk ( nodding out at 45 degrees when I saw him!) and the great Philly J.

                    BN.

                    Comment

                    • Ian Thumwood
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 4361

                      Originally posted by Stanfordian View Post
                      Hiya Bluesnik,

                      Mobley's style in 'No Room for Squares' is just begining to sound a touch modal for my taste. Whereas 'Rollcall', 'Soul Station', 'Mobley's Workout' & 'Another Workout' is the Mobley groove that suits me best. At the moment I'm also wollowing in Ike Quebec, Joe Henderson & Tina Brooks.
                      I agree that "Work out " is a good album but "Roll call" is a duffer. It is incredible that this record gets such glowing references on some websites. This is one of the least considered albums that Blue Note put out. It is common for critics of Blue Note to comment on the typical Hard Bop blowing sessions are demonstrating a lack of variety. However inaccurate this description is, "Roll call" does like up to this cliché. The themes are a bit hackneyed with one being a rip off of "Fever" and I think Mobley is out-classed by Hubbard. That said, I think this is an early session for Hubbard and he got better as the 196o's progressed. the best part of the album is attributable to Wynton Kelly's piano but, rarely for a Blue Note session, this is out of tune. On top of this, I think Art Blakey is too much of a comfort blanket for Mobley who seems to perform better with the more sparky Philly Joe Jones. It is probably the most perfunctory Blue Note album I have in my collection and not a patch on "Workout " or "No room for squares." I will have to snap up "Soul Station."

                      I have become increasingly addicted to Blue Note after reading the book that came out late last year. Filling in the gaps in my collection, I am finding the reviews within this publication are sometimes wide of the mark. It is a nice "product" but the criticism is too hagiographical and doesn't offer anything new or too insightful.

                      Comment

                      • elmo
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 556

                        Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post
                        I agree that "Work out " is a good album but "Roll call" is a duffer. It is incredible that this record gets such glowing references on some websites. This is one of the least considered albums that Blue Note put out. It is common for critics of Blue Note to comment on the typical Hard Bop blowing sessions are demonstrating a lack of variety. However inaccurate this description is, "Roll call" does like up to this cliché. The themes are a bit hackneyed with one being a rip off of "Fever" and I think Mobley is out-classed by Hubbard. That said, I think this is an early session for Hubbard and he got better as the 196o's progressed. the best part of the album is attributable to Wynton Kelly's piano but, rarely for a Blue Note session, this is out of tune. On top of this, I think Art Blakey is too much of a comfort blanket for Mobley who seems to perform better with the more sparky Philly Joe Jones. It is probably the most perfunctory Blue Note album I have in my collection and not a patch on "Workout " or "No room for squares." I will have to snap up "Soul Station."

                        I have become increasingly addicted to Blue Note after reading the book that came out late last year. Filling in the gaps in my collection, I am finding the reviews within this publication are sometimes wide of the mark. It is a nice "product" but the criticism is too hagiographical and doesn't offer anything new or too insightful.
                        Ian

                        I have to say I like "Roll Call" and many Mobley fans rate it second only to "Soul station", personally I would put " NRFS" second only but for me all Mobley from 1960 to 63 is the finest of Hard Bop. "Soul Station" is an absolute must though possibly if you are not keen on Art it might not be for you but it is a wonderfully relaxed session where everything just sounds so right. I recall Dave Gelly writing that although the title track is a straightforward blues, to play it with the timing, rhythmic subtly and soulfulness was an extremely difficult thing to do; Hank was very much a musicians musician.
                        Reading Simon Spillet's excellent book on Tubby Hayes and there is an interesting quote from Tempo records Tony Hall on how much Mobley influenced the Brit Hard Boppers -

                        " It's funny because everyone now talks of Rollins and Coltrane as influences but at the time Hank Mobley was a far more important influence for Ronnie and Tubby. He was far more influential over here than in the States, something I have never been able to work out. Of course they listened to Rollins but no-one really knew much about Coltrane. He certainly didn't loom large like he did a few years later, so it was Hank Mobley that they loved"

                        Regarding Later Mobley I definitely agree with Bluesnik that " A slice off the top" (with a large group including Billy Higgins) is the one to get but you can't go wrong with " Hi Voltage" with Jackie Mac and "Dippin" with Lee Morgan.
                        elmo

                        Comment

                        • Tom Audustus

                          Originally posted by elmo View Post
                          Ian

                          I have to say I like "Roll Call" and many Mobley fans rate it second only to "Soul station", personally I would put " NRFS" second only but for me all Mobley from 1960 to 63 is the finest of Hard Bop. "Soul Station" is an absolute must though possibly if you are not keen on Art it might not be for you but it is a wonderfully relaxed session where everything just sounds so right. I recall Dave Gelly writing that although the title track is a straightforward blues, to play it with the timing, rhythmic subtly and soulfulness was an extremely difficult thing to do; Hank was very much a musicians musician.
                          Reading Simon Spillet's excellent book on Tubby Hayes and there is an interesting quote from Tempo records Tony Hall on how much Mobley influenced the Brit Hard Boppers -

                          " It's funny because everyone now talks of Rollins and Coltrane as influences but at the time Hank Mobley was a far more important influence for Ronnie and Tubby. He was far more influential over here than in the States, something I have never been able to work out. Of course they listened to Rollins but no-one really knew much about Coltrane. He certainly didn't loom large like he did a few years later, so it was Hank Mobley that they loved"

                          Regarding Later Mobley I definitely agree with Bluesnik that " A slice off the top" (with a large group including Billy Higgins) is the one to get but you can't go wrong with " Hi Voltage" with Jackie Mac and "Dippin" with Lee Morgan.
                          elmo
                          I'd go along with that. When I started transcribing and learning solos many years ago as part of understanding this wonderful music, it was Mobley that I turned to time and time again. I still get more satisfaction from listening to a Mobley solo than Coltrane. A great artist and musician.

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                          • Tenor Freak
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 1075

                            I have Hi Voltage on vinyl and would recommend it to anyone; Blue Mitchell and Jackie McLean (!) add a lot of pizzazz to teh proceedings and John Hicks is brilliant on the ivories. I would like to nominate the exceptionally poignant ballad "No More Goodbys" (sic) for the JRR tenor ballad request spot as I think this really shows Hank at his most vulnerable. I don't mind that he's way too sharp - it's raw and that's the way I like it.
                            all words are trains for moving past what really has no name

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                            • Serial_Apologist
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 38184

                              Originally posted by Tenor Freak View Post
                              I have Hi Voltage on vinyl and would recommend it to anyone; Blue Mitchell and Jackie McLean (!) add a lot of pizzazz to teh proceedings and John Hicks is brilliant on the ivories. I would like to nominate the exceptionally poignant ballad "No More Goodbys" (sic) for the JRR tenor ballad request spot as I think this really shows Hank at his most vulnerable. I don't mind that he's way too sharp - it's raw and that's the way I like it.
                              Yet it was often Jackie who was the one playing sharp. Dudu Pukwana was another altoist who did - there's an African way of singing collectively that to "our" ears is sharp: maybe it comes from that. John Hicks was often brilliant; I haven't hear this record, but remember him on other stuff from my schooldays and remember him as good, though precisely what is in the mists of my memory now. I once told Tim Richards (Spirit Level, Great Spirit etc) I thought of him as "our" John Hicks. "That's very kind", he said.

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                              • Tenor Freak
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 1075

                                Here's what I mean:
                                all words are trains for moving past what really has no name

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