Blue Note - time to seriously re-appraise this label?

[Tenor Freak]

I have a hard time in thinking that Blue Train is inferior to other LPs produced at the time. It's still a landmark in Trane's output and a personal favourite of mine. Of all of Coltrane's compositions I'd still put "Moment's Notice" at the top because it's a piece of genius: mental chord changes which produce a logical whole. When I first heard it I thought it was an old song; it was only later I found out it was an original.

As for some of the other criticisms: Al and Frank were running a small label in a competitive environment and had to have some bankers to make money. Presumably the local (NYC) market was for instrumentalists and not vocalists. People wanted Jimmy Smith LPs coming out of their ears. Despite the Reid Miles covers they weren't above putting dolly birds on the album covers to shift units.

[Ian Thumwood]

The noticeable thing with Blue Note for me is that the reputations earned by some don't seem justified. I've always felt that "Blue Train" is a let down, the title track probably the lamest title track on the label. Lee Morgan males a sophomore appearance and Coltrane always seems better with Miles in this period having not achieved the creative level of the music he produced with Impulse.

On the other extreme, there are some players like Kenny Dorham who I think was probably the most creative trumpet players on the label yet who never seems to have the kudos of the exciting Lee Morgan and hugely consistent Freddie Hubbard. Jazzrook's reviews on Amazon are always a s good starting point to find classic jazz albums and his review of "Whistle Stop" prompted me to snatch this album up. "Our Thing" is one of my favourite Blue Notes as the combination of Joe Henderson with the trumpeter is inspired. I think that "Whistle stop" is as good. The amazing thing for me on this album is the quality of the compositions and the writing is so imaginative that I would argue that Dorham's tunes are probably the nearest to today's contemporary style than anything else on the label. Dorham's records seems to improve with age.

The band is pretty decent too. Kenny Drew seems a bit reticent as a soloist at first but his piano ultimately proves to be more than the icing on the cake of this recording as it is an essential ingredient. The impression I have is that some of the piano parts may have been written - if not, some of the responses on tracks like "Sunset" are inspirational. Hank Mobley is a tenor player who I feel has mastered his technique but who had a tendency to sleep walk through some sessions. For me, he does sound a bit bland, especially on his own records. I think that "Whistle Stop" is easily the best performance I have heard from him. His smooth tone is a nice foil for the almost brittle sound of Dorham's trumpet and , in this instance, you cannot argue anything else other than this is a perfect coupling of front line horns. I really like what Mobley plays on this record. Dorham reminds me of Ambrose Akinmusire insofar that the way he tackles the trumpet is so unlike the typical grandiose approach. Gil Evans once said that Miles Davis was unique because of the fact that he represented the only alternative to the lineage on the horn that started with Armstrong. I can't accept this as I feel that Kenny Dorham's style was equally as radical. (Not to forget Dorham's own journey from be-bop with Parker, a the cradle of the birth of Hard Bop with Silver and then cropping up with avant gardists like Andrew Hill.)

I would suggest that the oddness of the compositions ensure that creative sparks would fly. The least interesting track is "Windmill" which, in itself, most be the most convoluted contra-fact based upon the changes of "Sweet Georgia Brown." This is nothing when compared with the opening "Philly Twist" which buckles and distorts the kind of line Charlie Parker might produce. This is a record which was pushing towards the more experimental records Blue Note would put out a few years later and more imaginative than most Hard Bop the label was producing at that time. It is a bit like Lee Morgan's "Sidewinder" in that it looks like Hard Bop on the face of things yet there is more going on than you would imagine. The leader's trumpet is as good a reason as the writing for snapping up this record.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

The noticeable thing with Blue Note for me is that the reputations earned by some don't seem justified. I've always felt that "Blue Train" is a let down, the title track probably the lamest title track on the label. Lee Morgan males a sophomore appearance and Coltrane always seems better with Miles in this period having not achieved the creative level of the music he produced with Impulse.

On the other extreme, there are some players like Kenny Dorham who I think was probably the most creative trumpet players on the label yet who never seems to have the kudos of the exciting Lee Morgan and hugely consistent Freddie Hubbard. Jazzrook's reviews on Amazon are always a s good starting point to find classic jazz albums and his review of "Whistle Stop" prompted me to snatch this album up. "Our Thing" is one of my favourite Blue Notes as the combination of Joe Henderson with the trumpeter is inspired. I think that "Whistle stop" is as good. The amazing thing for me on this album is the quality of the compositions and the writing is so imaginative that I would argue that Dorham's tunes are probably the nearest to today's contemporary style than anything else on the label. Dorham's records seems to improve with age.

The band is pretty decent too. Kenny Drew seems a bit reticent as a soloist at first but his piano ultimately proves to be more than the icing on the cake of this recording as it is an essential ingredient. The impression I have is that some of the piano parts may have been written - if not, some of the responses on tracks like "Sunset" are inspirational. Hank Mobley is a tenor player who I feel has mastered his technique but who had a tendency to sleep walk through some sessions. For me, he does sound a bit bland, especially on his own records. I think that "Whistle Stop" is easily the best performance I have heard from him. His smooth tone is a nice foil for the almost brittle sound of Dorham's trumpet and , in this instance, you cannot argue anything else other than this is a perfect coupling of front line horns. I really like what Mobley plays on this record. Dorham reminds me of Ambrose Akinmusire insofar that the way he tackles the trumpet is so unlike the typical grandiose approach. Gil Evans once said that Miles Davis was unique because of the fact that he represented the only alternative to the lineage on the horn that started with Armstrong. I can't accept this as I feel that Kenny Dorham's style was equally as radical. (Not to forget Dorham's own journey from be-bop with Parker, a the cradle of the birth of Hard Bop with Silver and then cropping up with avant gardists like Andrew Hill.)

I would suggest that the oddness of the compositions ensure that creative sparks would fly. The least interesting track is "Windmill" which, in itself, most be the most convoluted contra-fact based upon the changes of "Sweet Georgia Brown." This is nothing when compared with the opening "Philly Twist" which buckles and distorts the kind of line Charlie Parker might produce. This is a record which was pushing towards the more experimental records Blue Note would put out a few years later and more imaginative than most Hard Bop the label was producing at that time. It is a bit like Lee Morgan's "Sidewinder" in that it looks like Hard Bop on the face of things yet there is more going on than you would imagine. The leader's trumpet is as good a reason as the writing for snapping up this record.

Whistle Stop is a majestic record. Bloody gorgeous. I bought it on import when it first came out in the early 60s. I even bought a pair of coin cufflinks like Kenny wears on the sleeve. Ahhhh the bird of time. And the band as you say is exceptional. Paul and Kenny Drew add so much. A total joy.

As for Bluetrain you have le cufflinks for ears. As for a lame title track, ck/out Mobley's Turnaround, a clone to groan.
Thanks for that demand Albert.

BN.

Record Store Day today. I will be shoplifting rare Barney and essential Elmo. Got Elmo' s very rare "Hopefull" (Riverside) this week. Solo and duets with Bertha. Viva les Hopes.

[burning dog]

Turnaround (tune)


Obviously the label was looking for a Sidewinder type hit. It's not a great tune (or even "very good") but it may may have fared better played by (say) the Turrentine brothers. Not a Mobley type vehicle at all. The rest of the albums fine IIRC..


Quite a few hard bop/soul jazz staples sound like cut down Big Band pieces. Definitely elements of both the Swing Era and R&B present in many of them


What about the Blakey Big Band album? Not on Blue Note but in the same vein. Does it sound like a hard bop quin/sextet beefed up? . Forceful playing but some arrangements a bit perfunctory it seems to me. Sounds a bit old fashioned as well IMO

Quite like the arrangement on this one but not very boppish or "modern" by the standard of the time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtqCZn0BWWk

[Ian Thumwood]

Add to basket.....

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/k-d-30-compositions-by-kenny-dorham-sheet-music/2871927

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Turnaround (tune)


Obviously the label was looking for a Sidewinder type hit. It's not a great tune (or even "very good") but it may may have fared better played by (say) the Turrentine brothers. Not a Mobley type vehicle at all. The rest of the albums fine IIRC..


Quite a few hard bop/soul jazz staples sound like cut down Big Band pieces. Definitely elements of both the Swing Era and R&B present in many of them


What about the Blakey Big Band album? Not on Blue Note but in the same vein. Does it sound like a hard bop quin/sextet beefed up? . Forceful playing but some arrangements a bit perfunctory it seems to me. Sounds a bit old fashioned as well IMO

Quite like the arrangement on this one but not very boppish or "modern" by the standard of the time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtqCZn0BWWk

That Blakey BB was later reboxed as a Coltrane album complete with numerous out takes! Arrangements by Al Cohn? I like it in parts although the Quintet sides are better.

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

I know that Al Cohn was working as a contractor at the time and I assume that he must have largely organised this session. This is why he features on so many big band records from that era.

[Tenor Freak]

Add to basket.....



http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/...-music/2871927

KD wrote some super tunes - my favourite being "Escapade" which is on the "Our Thing" LP (also covered by Jimmy Spaulding many years later).

His compositions should be better known. Agree about Whistle Stop - many thanks to Teh Duke of Celtic Manor Schloss for sending me teh CD.

[Ian Thumwood]

Bruce

I will let you know what the Kenny Dorham music book is like.

I can't get enough of "Whistle stop" and am pleased that Jazzrook put me on to it through his Amazon review. It is staggeringly brilliant, even by the standards of Blue Note. The thing that amazed me is that Dorham wasn't actually playing "Hard Bop" but producing something akin to "post-bop" - his music on this album is far more ambitious and thought out than the typical fare of the time. The trumpet playing is very much a detour from the instrument's historic role and I get the impression of a musician really thinking about what he is saying as well as looking for the less than obvious routes across a chord sequence. The timbre of his trumpet also varies throughout the solos , making the improvisations even more nuanced. In my opinion the "Sunrise" and "Sunset" compositions are demonstrative of how far reaching he was - it was a shame that "Epitaph " only last less than 2 minutes as I am sure that this had the potential for being a major composition. I'm usually pretty negative about Mobley as he has always seemed someone whose playing is too comfortable and never seemed to push his technique in to more adventurous spheres. Usually, I find him to be like a musical equivalent of Hush Puppies - comfortable and practical but lacking in style. This opinion is reinforced by the Miles Davis album "Someday my prince will come" where Mobley seems woefully out of sorts. He sounds overwhelmed by Davis. On "Whistle stop" the tone, the structure and whole general approach is pretty staggering. I've never heard any record on where he is as good as this and I think a lot of this is due to Dorham's compositional approach. Everything about "Whistle stop" is incredible. The bass and drums of Chambers and Jones has a bristle and crispness about it that belies the idea that this team's best work was with Miles.

I'm inclined to match this record with Freddie Redd's "Shades of Redd" which similarly takes the notion of Hard Bop and re-invents the oeuvre through imaginative composition. Tina Brooks' "True Blue" is another example but perhaps not the masterpiece that "Whistle stop" is.

I totally agree about Henderson's "our thing" which I would consider more successful in pushing the boundaries than something like "Point of departure" - I love Andrew Hill's music but this is not a favourite. "Our thing " is often overlooked.

I've ordered some more Dorham in the hope that it will be as good as this. I have "Una mas" which is a solid session and perfectly admirable but has the material stretched too thin to make it worthy of being a masterpiece. ""Trompetta toccata" on the way along with "Afro-Cuban."

Question for Bluesnik - How many appearances did Billy Higgins make on Blue note? I think I've acquired them all but love his approach to the drums. He makes a nice contrast to the likes of Elvin jones.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

No idea of the total number but he became the kind of Bluenote 'house drummer' after he lost his club card in a drug bust playing the Five Spot gig with Ornette. He is often listed as the most recorded drummer ('thousends') , something akin to Klook in the 50s.

I saw him quite a few times and most closely, from the side of the stage, playing with Harold Land with a huge smile on his face whenever Harold moved him. He was much 'heavier' in person with that kind of Frank Butler/Elvin thickness/power of drum sound. Gelder's recordings often make him very "toppy".

BN.


Btw, I wrote a glowing review of Whistle Stop for the (very) old Bluenote website suggesting that Kenny must have been frustrated that his plans for a bigger "canvas" (Epitaph etc) came to nothing. His daughter reponded very nicely that her father was content at the end with the massive respect of his peers.

Wonderful story of Kenny, ill and when he could least afford it, buying a new cashmere overcoat just to attend Wynton Kelly's funeral.

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

Dorham seems to me to be one of those bizarre musicians whose worth and importance seems to increase with the passage of time. I think he seems to transcend Hard Bop, both in his approach to composition and trumpet playing. "Whistle stop" doesn't sound too removed from a lot of more orthodox jazz today.

"Una Mas" isn't quite as good. The solos are really stretched out across a small number of tracks and the title track is almost as over-played at "Blue Bossa." However, "Sao Paulo" is very ambitious and the most through-composed and the blues, "Straight ahead," is really enjoyable.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Dorham seems to me to be one of those bizarre musicians whose worth and importance seems to increase with the passage of time. I think he seems to transcend Hard Bop, both in his approach to composition and trumpet playing. "Whistle stop" doesn't sound too removed from a lot of more orthodox jazz today.

"Una Mas" isn't quite as good. The solos are really stretched out across a small number of tracks and the title track is almost as over-played at "Blue Bossa." However, "Sao Paulo" is very ambitious and the most through-composed and the blues, "Straight ahead," is really enjoyable.

Agree about Una Mas, the title track goes on far too long. What impresses me about Kenny is his thoughtfulness and the way he quietly developed his playing from the long running lines of the mid 50s through a melodic consolidation at the end of that decade on into the more abstracted and often shorter phrases he used with Henderson.

Great player.

BN.


"Kenny Dorham, the MOST underrated of all contemporary trumpet players" - Booker Little, notes to 'The Booker Little Quartet' on Time.

[Ian Thumwood]

There is a 2-CD on Amazon where Dorham sings! Wasn't aware of that string to his bow. Might try "Quiet Kenny" next.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

There is a 2-CD on Amazon where Dorham sings! Wasn't aware of that string to his bow. Might try "Quiet Kenny" next.

Fan of both. Quiet Kenny is made up of shorter ballad features and longer blues. V. interesting to hear him work on the latter solos as a run up to the superb Buffalo on WS. The vocal album is hip and neat. A good light voice, not a deep Johnny Hartman. He sang when he was with Dizzy as a band feature.

BN.

[elmo]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8xfx08UbpIw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ian

Lovely version of "I can't get started" by the earliest version of the Dorham/Henderson quintet with Ronnie Mathews, Steve Davis, J.C. Moses.

Kenny's trumpet tone is absolutely beautiful

elmo

https://youtu.be/8xfx08UbpIw