Blue Note - time to seriously re-appraise this label?

[Serial_Apologist]

For years I thought that if Hank Mobley (say) had a Bluenote record date, he would virtually run it in terms of picking sidemen and material. I've only realised more recently that Alfred was much more proactive in putting sessions together and favouring his chosen ones. - one of the reasons Grant Green shows up (not always usefully) so often on other people's dates. Mobley said the reason he recorded with Herbie Hancock was that Alfred wanted at least one player there who was "straight".

There's an interesting interview with Jack Walrath where he says that even Van Gelder had input, refusing to record stuff from Herbie he didn't think would fit,

BN,

Do you think Herbie's impressions of the "Takin Off" period are somewhat rosy in terms of favouring himself, then? He has said that "Watermelon Man" afforded him his first motor!

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Do you think Herbie's impressions of the "Takin Off" period are somewhat rosy in terms of favouring himself, then? He has said that "Watermelon Man" afforded him his first motor!

There's a tribute to the late Donald Byrd where Herbie affectionately states that he was going to buy a functional station wagon with the first cheque and Donald said, "hell no, YOU now need the latest sports car!" Alfred also wanted him to sign over the publishing for that date until Donald told him never do that, keep that outside the deal.

Re Gelder, Sorry it was Jerry Dodgion who said that Herbie wanted to record some solo pieces to round out an album and Gelder refused point blank as he'd have to move some of the mikes! He even overruled Duke Pearson who was A&Ring the date. I think it was Herbie's last Bluenote date and he said, fek it.

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

I don't have too many of Hancock's Blue notes (Emperyean Isles and Maiden Voyage only) but have loads of BN's where he is the pianist. I assume that the Mobley / Hancock combination appertains to the two cuts on "No room for squares?" The best material on this album is actually the session with Andrew Hill playing piano.

For my money the best HH session on BN is actually under Bobby Hutcherson's name. " Happenings" is a staggeringly brilliant album and nearly matched by "Oblique." Hancock's playing on these records is incredible and shows just how in tune he was with free jazz and, in my opinion, a better musician in this realm that more celebrated names. I really think he was up with Cecil Taylor as a free improviser and these two quartet sessions are amongst the most illustrious the label recorded but relatively unknown and unappreciated. They are fantastic records and more "outside" than you would imagine although they could also swing and play pretty too.

Mobley is interesting. A friend of mine said on Thursday night how great his phrasing was even though his taste is generally for more adventurous types of jazz. Mobley could be brilliant on albums like "Whistle stop" but also equally capable of sleep walking through sessions. It is interesting that critical opinion regarding Mobley seems to be changing with a more balanced assessment now being offered by some critics / fans. I feel that he can be a total bore on sessions where the music is relaxed or unchallenging but as soon as the music offers something different (Andrew Hill comping / Kenny Dorham compositions) he becomes much more engaged and worthy of his reputation.

I don't think that Blue Note always got it right but with the passage of 50 -odd years it is interesting how those artists who were more interested in composition seem to have produced more polished records than some artists would were more casual. I'm really being won over by Horace Silver's quintets as , although they are not too adventurous, he certainly knew how to compose and his sessions are much better rehearsed than many others on the label. The Horace Silver quintets are extremely tight and perhaps this was a factor in employing the likes of Junior Cook and Blue Mitchell as they could do the business on the solos but more importantly deliver the music with the necessary polish and elan. No one ever comments on the dynamics of HS's quintet - the more you listen the more you realise what a good working band he had.

[Alyn_Shipton]

I was rather pleased with this edition of Jazz Library concerning Mr Mobley: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00g3qcm

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I've recently got the Blakey "Jazz Corner of the World" sets that I had years ago. This is Mobley back in the band with Lee Morgan and just before he joined Miles. I was really surprised again how forcefully and inventively he plays on these club recordings, more Trane influenced than I remembered him and you can hear what tonal effects Wayne Shorter took away.

The record that's supposed to show Hank "moving on" is "Slice off the top", a larger arranged group date with Spalding etc that Blue note shelved as being non commercial. Much harder tone than say Soul Station but not (for me) with the fire of that Blakey set. That is really striking stuff.

BN.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Yes indeed Alyn. The Lee Morgan, Hank Mobley and Eric Dolphy editions of J. Library in particular were full of insight.

BN.

[Serial_Apologist]

Agitate, organise, Mobleyize...

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

"The Monster player, The Hankenstein!" as Dexter Gordon called him!

BN.

[elmo]

Agree with you Bluesie the " Jazz corner of the world" sets are some of Blakey's best with Mobley in great shape, I'm sure you have the Sonny Clark album " My Conception" recorded a month before the Jazz corner session. If not you need it - Mobley is just as inspired plus marvellous Sonny Clark and PC, Blakey.

Ian

I don't know if you are familiar with the Blakey "Live at the Café Bohemia" sessions on Blue Note I think they represent the best of Hard Bop, a perfect line up of Kenny Dorham, Hank, Horace Silver, Doug Watkins and Art. Kenny and Hank were always a perfect front line, good compositions and a driving rhythm section - Hard bop heaven. Would recommend "Prince Albert" and "Like someone in love" as being well up there with "Whistle Stop"

Re - Inconsistency in Hank's work, I don't think Hank was any more inconsistent than most creative musicians, the rather chaotic lifestyle that Hank was leading did not help together with addiction and incarceration. A lot of musicians from that period recorded possibly more than they should have simply to feed their habits.

elmo

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I had "Yesterdays" from the Bohemia set played on JRR a while back, beautiful Kenny Dorham feature.

Kenny Drew's "Undercurrent" on Bluenote from around the 1960 period has some very fine Mobley, esp on the modal title track. He played a fairly long residence at Ronnie's in the late sixties. Still kick myself I didn't get to see him. Val Wilmer interviewed him at that time.

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

Elmo

One of my friends regularly played drums in pick up bands when "star" soloists toured France and one of those was Mobley. I think this was later in Mobley's career. His opinion was that, by then, he wasn't really a strong leader and always commented that Clifford Jordan's constant flow of ideas and creativity was something that he was far more impressed with.

[elmo]

How did I manage to miss that JRR - "I waited for you" from the session is also a fine ballad feature for Kenny and Hank.

Agree with you re "Undercurrent" a really unusual tune as well

I was living in London at the time Hank played Ronnie's and I missed him as well... weird I saw Joe Henderson, Roland Kirk, Philly Joe, Otis Redding, Hendrix and loads of others but missed Hank, what a dummy....

elmo

[elmo]

Elmo

One of my friends regularly played drums in pick up bands when "star" soloists toured France and one of those was Mobley. I think this was later in Mobley's career. His opinion was that, by then, he wasn't really a strong leader and always commented that Clifford Jordan's constant flow of ideas and creativity was something that he was far more impressed with.

Ian

Your friend was probably right regarding Mobley's leadership, one of the things that upset Miles was that he felt Hank badly underplayed his talents

I have some music from the European tour that your drummer friend attended. The session I have has Kenny Drew, NHOP and Tootie Heath
on the evidence of this session he was on very good form playing in his later style, breaking up the more flowing lines of his "Soul Station" period.

Can't fault your friends opinion of Clifford Jordan - a Great tenor player, love his work with Max Roach and the Charles Mingus Sextet with Johnny Coles and Eric Dolphy.

elmo

[elmo]

I was rather pleased with this edition of Jazz Library concerning Mr Mobley: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00g3qcm

Thank you Alyn I was very pleased with this edition also, I recorded it at the time it was transmitted. I wish you had been able to do a similar programme on Elmo Hope.

elmo

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Thank you Alyn I was very pleased with this edition also, I recorded it at the time it was transmitted. I wish you had been able to do a similar programme on Elmo Hope.

elmo

Elmo Hope Lives.

Also a v.nice tribute just now to Tina Brooks' Bluenotes on Richard Williams' "Blue Moment" Blog.

Everyone is getting the Message.

BN.

Clifford Jordan's Strata East, it's a Feast.