... there you have it hmm?

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

JLU is an excellent brew of English jazz today; Robert Wyatt for his fans, Tubby Hayes featured; live Christine Tobin and loadsa tracks &c catch it on iPlayer [and pbi!]

Geoffrey will have his way with James P Johnson recordings [no pbi]

Jon3 sounds disgusting featuring Food at Emulsion evokes the pink mix that is an infamous compnent of American processed meat ...

in fact it is:
Iain Ballamy (soprano and tenor saxophones, electronics); Thomas Strønen (percussion) apparently for the whole 90 minutes


Jazzrook mentioned Sonny Stitt, this features the estimable Walter Bishop on piano

[Serial_Apologist]

Thanks Calum.

It seems hard to realise Tubby was only 12 years older than us two, so long has he been gone.

JLU is an excellent brew of English jazz today; Robert Wyatt for his fans, Tubby Hayes featured; live Christine Tobin and loadsa tracks &c catch it on iPlayer [and pbi!]

For those who were interested by the link I posted a few weeks ago, the guitarist Ant Law's band - whose track from his new album is last on the list - appears at the Dean Street Pizza Express, Soho, on the 16th and 17th Feb. Don't get way-laid on the way.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

[Alyn_Shipton]

I rather thought JLU would have invited Simon Spillett to talk about Tubbs, but apparently not. Anyhow, wearing another of my hats can I draw the following to boardees' attention: http://www.equinoxpub.com/home/long-...imon-spillett/

[Serial_Apologist]

I rather thought JLU would have invited Simon Spillett to talk about Tubbs, but apparently not. Anyhow, wearing another of my hats can I draw the following to boardees' attention: http://www.equinoxpub.com/home/long-...imon-spillett/

Thanks for the link, Alyn.

I must say, I get more and more impressed by Kevin Le Gendre's contributions to JLU and occasionally Jon3. Always sympathetic but never any critical slippage. I thought he was especially perceptive on Robert Wyatt's Rock Bottom, bringing out subliminals that had escaped my notice.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

indeed but he did not arouse my enthusiasm for Mr Wyatt ... have always felt somewhat detached from his work ...

KLG is getting better but i am still unconvinced by his ability to grasp wider issues [i still recall his amazing ignorance of East Germany and the police state that it was]

this also covers the period of Wyatt's emergence into the fusionista demi monde

the Hayes track from Mexican Green was simply amazing; as he was in person ... i can still see him blowing like a daemon at the Old Place when we were kids S_A!

[Serial_Apologist]

the Hayes track from Mexican Green was simply amazing; as he was in person ... i can still see him blowing like a daemon at the Old Place when we were kids S_A!

When Tubby and Ronnie played their asses off to lukewarm applause, in contrast to the massive ovations enjoyed by visiting artists from our audiences, that was when I became aware of the stark inverted snobbery abroad in this country, which, with encouragement from Dizzy, Mingus and Newk, it took the advent and enrichment of an indigenous voice in the music, as in Sandinavia and elsewhere, to counter.

[RayBurns]

I saw Tubbs in 1962 at the 100 Club (I think it was the 100 club, a mates older brother took us and told us we would see something special). It blew me away, can't say the applause was lukewarm that evening. That was the day I became an out and out modern jazz fan.

Simon's book has taken around 10 years from start to publication. I've seen a draft and it really is as good as you think it's going to be, mine's on order.

[Old Grumpy]

Sorry, but can't quite get my head round why Robert Wyatt featured on Jazz Line Up. I'm sure, as KLG intimated, his output may have been influenced by jazz - I for one, however, could not detect it in any of the offerings on JLU! In fact I had to turn the radio off as Mrs G couldn't stand it. Can't really say there's any improvement as listen again on iplayer.

Tubby Hayes on the other hand, well...

OG

[Ian Thumwood]

It is strange to think that Tubby Hayes could still have been alive had he not succumbed to drugs. As someone who got in to jazz about 7/8 years after he had died, he was someone who had an almost mythical reputation as I grew up. This was enhanced by the difficulty in finding his records and I never actually heard anything by him until a friend loaned me the Mole Jazz re-issue of "Mexican Green." The effect of this record was two-fold. Firstly it convinced me that Hayes was probably the greatest jazz musician this country had produced up to that point and that this quartet could match American groups to-to-toe. The second effect was that everything else afterwards never matched that record. In my opinion, "Mexican Green" is the apogee of British Modern Jazz both from a playing perspective and from a compositional point of view. I've got quite a few other records by Hayes including one of the brilliant New York sessions with Clark Terry and one of the Dial live recordings which is marred by what I think is a wooden rhythm section. Hayes is always imperious but since I first discovered his music, a significant proportion of re-releases I've heard are good yet nowhere near as exceptional as "Mexican Green."

I've had some quite interesting debates with some jazz-loving friends about Tubby Hayes. I don't think he was as progressive as Joe Harriott yet am convinced had be recorded with a more sympathetic record label like Blue Note that would have set him up with the movers and shakers of jazz he would have had a global reputation and, whilst not in the league of the Coltranes, Rollins, Hendersons, Shorters', etc, I think he would have stood proud amongst the next rung of tenor giants. Putting the cards on the table, I would be interested to see how Calum and Rae Burns would consider Tubby Hayes on a global scale. To my ears, Hayes sounds very similar to Hank Mobley yet he eschews the American's comfortable and avuncular style of player for something more souped up and turbo-charged. I had the discussion with a colleague many years ago that Hayes was easily the equal if not superior to Mobley. You could also add the likes of Tina Brooks, Stanley Turrentine, Ike Quebec, Booker Ervin, etc to the list. You could imagine Hayes being parachuted in to a group like Art Blakey's jazz messenger or one of Horace Silver's quintets and still managing to stand out. Sometimes the recordings I have heard sound like Hayes as going through the motions (I heard a CD several years ago which sounded like studio performances recorded for a radio programme and the musicians were playing without any conviction - the antithesis of what you would have expected Hayes to produce because on his better work he always solos like it was going to be his last.) I was also had discussions about Hayes with French fans. The bloke who run the jazz Cd department in FNAC in Rouen several years ago was a massive fan and stated that what he liked about British jazz was the attack and aggression of the players - Hayes was singled out. On a workshop in Vienne many years ago, I was staggered that none of the tutors / professional musicians had even heard of Tubby Hayes or knew anything about any British jazz musicians in the 50's / 60's. This perplexed me as I couldn't understand how you can say you love jazz and be unaware of Hayes. It made me think that he was a bit of a parochial figure.

British Jazz of the 1950's and 60's is a strange thing. If I had to use two words to describe it would be "worthy" and "earnest." There are 100's of recordings that are competent and whilst a good proportion of the record of that time were derivative, I think the comments Calum refers to about the negative reaction by the British jazz audience is probably a bit harsh whereas the approach by Trevor Cooper on this board often seemed uncritical. It would be brilliant, however, to give someone a blind-fold test with Tubby Hayes so that they had no preconceptions and then to listen to their opinion. Although the sound recording is thin and lack the warmth of Van Gelder, "Mexican Green" is as good as jazz gets and maybe indicative, as I believe, that Hayes needs to be considered outside the British jazz scene of the 50's and 60's and considered on a global stage.

You can also apply the same logic to Stan Tracey's "Little Klunk." Play this alongside some of the Monk recordings or Herbie Nichols from the same era and Tracey all of a sudden emerges as one of the great thinkers regarding jazz piano to emerge in the 1950's. Like all the best pianists, he drew heavily from Ellington but " Little klunk" is a welcome alternative to the solutions jazz pianists took to develop the music beyond Bud Powell. If Tracey had produced this record and nothing else and been born in the US, he would have had cult status.

It's interesting to consider this country's jazz scene and to measure it against what has gone on in the States at the same time. I think we are neck and neck within the mainstream albeit the really interesting stuff being produced today does come from the States - a point perhaps recognised by John Escreet who is probably the "One" British jazz musician to keep tabs on at the moment. However, I think with Hayes and Tracey the need to consider them as" British jazz musicians" does detract from their greater significance to the jazz scene. It's easy to over-praise a lot of British jazz of that time or to consider it under-estimated / neglected / the work of over-looked geniuses but in reconsidering the merits of records made 50-60 years ago you need to be careful that this does not retract from the brilliance of something like "Mexican Green."

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i think that Tubby missed out on New York in the late fifties; as you say Ian Blue Note would have been a different environment and in comparison with the Lenox School, the Miles 5 &c London was just too parochial then ... i see him in line with say Don Byas or Lucky Thompson, but his unstoppable fluency and drive is closest to Johnny Griffin i think ... ... but he was always going to start going hungry working in the UK starved of £££ and wide recognition just as Mr Joe Harriott was ...

meanwhile does any think that R3 could do lot more for current jazz in these islands than it does? it has certainly developed a welcome European reach in the llast couple of years, more so than in the time of the old boreds when i recall moaning about the neglect of Europe ... any way thanks to JLU for the Hayes feature ...

[Serial_Apologist]

i think that Tubby missed out on New York in the late fifties; as you say Ian Blue Note would have been a different environment and in comparison with the Lenox School, the Miles 5 &c London was just too parochial then ... i see him in line with say Don Byas or Lucky Thompson, but his unstoppable fluency and drive is closest to Johnny Griffin i think ... ... but he was always going to start going hungry working in the UK starved of £££ and wide recognition just as Mr Joe Harriott was ...

meanwhile does any think that R3 could do lot more for current jazz in these islands than it does? it has certainly developed a welcome European reach in the llast couple of years, more so than in the time of the opld boreds when ii recall maoning about the neglect of Europe ... any way thanks to JLU for the Hayes feature ...

Spot on with that Johnny Griffin comparison, I reckon, Calum.

I agree: in some ways jazz coverage is now (at last) setting the kinds of standards Radio 3 once represented right across its schedules before ratings chasing spinning on the spot assumed control. That said, there's a huge amount of new generation jazz apart from Trish Clowes that R3 jazz in general is failing to keep in touch with - that is, without the privilege of living somewhere like London and getting weekly feeds from wonderful places such as The Oxford pub in Kentish Town that keep us up to date.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

apropos of not much Carlos Santana on Miles

[Ian Thumwood]

I agree that Hayes does share the aggression of Griffin's playing but I think his tone has the control and smoothness of Mobley. If there is a difference between European and American jazz, I feel it was a rhythmic thing in the past but this has probably diminished over time. That said, I still think that the US remains a more conducive environment for jazz and the musicians seem superior both numerically and in the wider grasp of the idiom. Hearing a lot of younger European musicians these days makes you realise the richness of the current scene but I sometimes think that we are perhaps losing ground to what is going on in the continent.

I am intrigued by how different scenes seem to flourish and then wain. Thirty years ago it seemed like the Knitting Factory scene was at the fore-front of jazz and that this venue had effectively taken up the baton from the Loft scene in the 1970's. I think that New York is still the dominant location if you want to explore where the music is going judging from what you read in media yet my growing affinity with musicians from Chicago is beginning to make me question it's dominance. Talking to American musicians last year, I was advised that the current Kansas City scene has become increasingly rich with musicians exchanging both the West and East coast for the mid West.

[Old Grumpy]

This Tubby Hayes documentary DVD could be interesting. A preview here on YouTube.

OG