Fats Waller

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  • Ian Thumwood
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4255

    Fats Waller

    Although I love vintage jazz I have a real problem with Fats Waller. Granted he may have had a technique that very few jazz pianists have since possessed and a sense of swing that was irrepressible, I have always regarded his music with great suspicion. The solo piano recordings I have heard are fascinating and I think mark him out as the greatest of the stride pianists. Coupled with that, he was also capable of crafting some terrific songs including "Black and blue" which hinted at the profoundness of Billie Holiday's "Strange Fruit." A lot of his music is also great fun to listen to and there is an enjoyable romping quality in performances of his "Rhythm."

    However, if I was around in the 1930's when Waller was at his peak, I feel that I would have still snubbed him as his approach mixed an antiquated piano style with jive-hipness that would have placed his music squarely in the commercial box. With the passage of time his ultimate "Uncle Tom" act is almost unbearable and overshadows the musical merits where they are not lost in the once fashionable style of the time. In short, Waller's music has not stood the test of time very well and certainly lacks the gravitas accorded to the more "serious" small groups of the time whether led by Ellington, Goodman, Kirby, Norvo or even the proud, last recordings of Jelly Roll Morton. Small wonder that Mingus was inspired to compose the satirical "Eat that chicken" in Waller's honour.

    Waller is a big hole in my jazz listening and I have absolutely nothing by him in my collection - tracks like "Your feet's too big" ensure that I will probably never redress this. I've been listening to the new Fats waller tribute album by Jason Moran today. For me, Moran is the most interesting young jazz pianist on today's scene and in the past he has created miracles with his avant garde stride approach with tracks like "Modernistic" bringing fresh life to the wonderful James P Johnson and "Kinda Dukish" demonstrating his debt to Ellington. The Waller album is a bit hit and miss. Some of the tracks misfire and the preponderance of singer and soul grooves make this not as interesting as it could have been. I was hoping for a post-modern take on Waller and whilst this clearly happens on some of the tracks, I'd forgotten how good some tunes like "Two sleepy people" and "Yacht club swing" are. At it's best, the Monkish playfulness will always ensure that Jason Moran is worth a listen yet other numbers like "Ain't nobody's business" seem really wide of the mark. A missed opportunity and shame that Moran didn't elect for the strident approach of the JR Morton tunes on Eric Revis' "Parallax" album which might have been more in keeping with what Waller's music needed and perhaps made me interested enough to explore Fats' more fully.
  • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4323

    #2
    "A cheerful little earful" - Fats Waller biog.
    Alyn Shipton rev. 2003.....
    l
    "Waller's gargantuan
    appetites have been celebrated in anecdotes
    and earlier biographies. He is seen by jazz
    historians as a man of immense musical
    talent that was never fulfilled. In this fully
    revised and updated biography of Waller, Alyn
    Shipton re-examines his career, arguing that
    his talents as a songwriter, show composer,
    and brilliant recording and broadcasting artist
    have not been fully appreciated. In a newly
    written final chapter, there is a comprehensive
    survey of Waller's recordings as they have
    been reissued for the CD era."

    I'd be very careful of calling out "Tomism" from the comfort zone?

    BN.

    Comment

    • Ian Thumwood
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 4255

      #3
      Bluesnik

      I'm a bit surprised by your final comment. I would have thought that Waller's personality would have caused a lot of problems certainly post-World War Two. Miles Davis for one expressed his distaste with Fats Waller is his own, rather unpleasant autobiography. Waller's probably typical of the kind of music act that would have found itself hopeless out-moded from both a musical and social context with the emergence of a new generation of musicians after 1945. I've no problem with discussing his staggering technical and musical talent whether as a performer or composer but the persona he adopted is almost akin to a minstrel show. It's telling that modernists quickly latched on to Tatum but Waller 's equally impressive technique seemed to have no bearing.

      Hearing Moran perform Waller's music does make you want to listen to the original material and , I'd admit, has made me curious to explore his music further. However, such was Waller's appeal outside of jazz and his divorce from where the main thrust of jazz was going at the point of his utmost popularity has always made it difficult to consider him seriously. Although I think is was a far more talented artist, you can also compare Waller to someone like Jamie Cullum - a musician with a following outside of jazz who could communicate with a wider audience whilst not really having a serious relationship with the then current jazz mainstream. Had I been a jazz fan in the mid-late 30's, it would have been pianists like Tatum, Cole, Clyde Hart, Teddy Wilson, Mel Powell, Mary Lou Williams, etc who would have seemed more relevant. Even Early Hines was far more adventurous. Granted that jazz was as near as it has ever been at that point to being the popular music of the day, Fats Waller would have seemed too jovial, lightweight and commercial in comparison with other artists. Waller nowadays comes across as trying to be too accommodating in portraying black people as the white people of his day would like to have envisaged them. He's jazz's answer to the housemaid in the "Tom & Jerry" cartoons.

      Comment

      • richardfinegold
        Full Member
        • Sep 2012
        • 7762

        #4
        Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post
        Although I love vintage jazz I have a real problem with Fats Waller. Granted he may have had a technique that very few jazz pianists have since possessed and a sense of swing that was irrepressible, I have always regarded his music with great suspicion. The solo piano recordings I have heard are fascinating and I think mark him out as the greatest of the stride pianists. Coupled with that, he was also capable of crafting some terrific songs including "Black and blue" which hinted at the profoundness of Billie Holiday's "Strange Fruit." A lot of his music is also great fun to listen to and there is an enjoyable romping quality in performances of his "Rhythm."

        However, if I was around in the 1930's when Waller was at his peak, I feel that I would have still snubbed him as his approach mixed an antiquated piano style with jive-hipness that would have placed his music squarely in the commercial box. With the passage of time his ultimate "Uncle Tom" act is almost unbearable and overshadows the musical merits where they are not lost in the once fashionable style of the time. In short, Waller's music has not stood the test of time very well and certainly lacks the gravitas accorded to the more "serious" small groups of the time whether led by Ellington, Goodman, Kirby, Norvo or even the proud, last recordings of Jelly Roll Morton. Small wonder that Mingus was inspired to compose the satirical "Eat that chicken" in Waller's honour.

        Waller is a big hole in my jazz listening and I have absolutely nothing by him in my collection - tracks like "Your feet's too big" ensure that I will probably never redress this. I've been listening to the new Fats waller tribute album by Jason Moran today. For me, Moran is the most interesting young jazz pianist on today's scene and in the past he has created miracles with his avant garde stride approach with tracks like "Modernistic" bringing fresh life to the wonderful James P Johnson and "Kinda Dukish" demonstrating his debt to Ellington. The Waller album is a bit hit and miss. Some of the tracks misfire and the preponderance of singer and soul grooves make this not as interesting as it could have been. I was hoping for a post-modern take on Waller and whilst this clearly happens on some of the tracks, I'd forgotten how good some tunes like "Two sleepy people" and "Yacht club swing" are. At it's best, the Monkish playfulness will always ensure that Jason Moran is worth a listen yet other numbers like "Ain't nobody's business" seem really wide of the mark. A missed opportunity and shame that Moran didn't elect for the strident approach of the JR Morton tunes on Eric Revis' "Parallax" album which might have been more in keeping with what Waller's music needed and perhaps made me interested enough to explore Fats' more fully.

        Geez, lighten up. Waller was an entertainer first, and a musician second. He probably would have cared less about your assessment. You want profundity, go listen to Schoenberg. You want to laugh and have a good time, occasionally with some sparks of genius thrown in, then try Fats.

        Comment

        • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 4323

          #5
          Ian, the point is surely the context artists like Waller were living and working in. America was a racist sewer. Some would say only the wallpaper has changed. Waller was a working performer, not W.E.Dubois. Its a bit bloody rich for you (or I) to sit in racial judgement from Mount Whiteness and award retrospective points. How much do you not "conform" in your life and job? And at what little sanction. So for Waller?

          That quote from Ellington to some idiot fan who demanded to know who played third trumpet on some obscure date back in 1943? "Look, ALL you see here is sixteen guys just trying to make a living".

          The rest is bonus.


          BN.

          Comment

          • Alyn_Shipton
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 777

            #6
            BN, couldn't agree more. (And thanks for the mention of my book.) Fats very much had to conform with the entertainment scene of the time. He knew his scenes from Hooray for Love and King of Burlesque would be chopped out of those movies for cinemas in the South, and in one he was only allowed to play a speaking role as an elevator operator. Suggest Ian (a) listens through the collected solo piano recordings (Turn on the Heat on RCA, recently reissued on one of the Andorran piratical type labels); (b) through the entire output of the Rhythm - including the many non-vocal sides, which are some of the best, most consistent swing small group sides of the 1930s, and (c) through Fats's guest appearances with other bands - such as his energising presence in Fletcher Henderson's band, and then comes back and offers an opinion, instead of sounding off on the basis of - it appears - scant listening. The Jazz Library episode was pre-podcast (and one of Humph's last broadcasts - certainly his last appearance on Radio 3) but the playlist can be accessed via this link, and includes a tasteful mixture of hokum and the more profound...

            Comment

            • aka Calum Da Jazbo
              Late member
              • Nov 2010
              • 9173

              #7
              and let's not even mention Louis A .....

              link? Alyn?

              mind that jib!!!

              n.b 1' 10" ish the piano solo


              According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

              Comment

              • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 4323

                #8
                Let us not forget that as late as 1968....1968! for God's sake, Crysler, the sponsor, threatened to veto a broadcast of the Petula Clark show on NBC because she put rested her hand on Harry Belafonte's arm at the very close of a number.

                A lunatic asylum. As obscene as South Africa.

                BN.

                Comment

                • Serial_Apologist
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 37877

                  #9
                  Can anyone remember when a black and a white person were first shown kissing on telly, in this country? Eastenders? It wasn't so long ago.

                  Comment

                  • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 4323

                    #10
                    According to the Wikinet...always 999.9%correct:

                    "The first interracial kiss on British television was
                    in Emergency Ward 10 in 1964. In the US it was in Star Trek between James T.Kirk (William Shatner) and Lt. Uhura (Nichelle Nichols). However, according to William Shatner and Nichelle Nichols in Shatner's 'Star Trek: Memories', NBC insisted that their lips never touch. Their heads turn away from the camera in the shot."

                    I've also read it was when Sammy Davis Jnr gave Nancy Sinatra a passing peck on the neck.They did it at the very end of a music shoot so there could be no studio demands for "retakes." God help us.

                    BN.

                    Comment

                    • Jazzrook
                      Full Member
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 3123

                      #11
                      Ian, don't forget that Eric Dolphy recorded a version of Waller's 'Jitterbug Waltz'.



                      Also, Cecil Taylor's tribute 'Wallering'.

                      Looking Ahead! (1959)Personnel:Cecil Taylor (Piano)Buell Neidlinger (Bass)Dennis Charles (Drums)Earl Griffith (Vibes)--Nat Hentoff (Producer)
                      Last edited by Jazzrook; 21-11-14, 10:35.

                      Comment

                      • burning dog
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 1511

                        #12
                        he's confessin' that he loves him

                        Comment

                        • burning dog
                          Full Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 1511

                          #13

                          Comment

                          • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 4323

                            #14
                            Originally posted by burning dog View Post
                            I'm of an age (137) when my idea of Fats Waller was corrupted by the evil hobgoblin Tommy Bruce ("Aint Misbehaviiiiiiiin' savin Alllla my loooooorve for yew" down the Ol CCC'hent Troad )

                            But there is a glorious slower bluesy take on this by Ray Charles and David Newman from 1956. On "The Great Ray Charles" instrumental album. Sonny Stitt got the idea first but its still great.



                            BN.
                            Last edited by BLUESNIK'S REVOX; 21-11-14, 15:15.

                            Comment

                            • Ian Thumwood
                              Full Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 4255

                              #15
                              Whilst I concur with Jazzrook's appreciation of Dolphy's "Jitterbug Waltz", I've always thought that this version by Greg Osby with Andrew Hill, Scott Colley and Terri-Lynne Carrington is the defining version. For my money, "The invisable hand" remains one of Blue Note's greatest album - Jim Hall features on other tracks. I love the oblique manner with which Hill approaches the piano solo.



                              As a composer, Waller's material has been central to some of my favourite jazz records whether it is McKinney Cottons Picker's "Zonky", Fletcher Henderson's "Honey suckle Rose" or Gil Evans' "Willow Tree." Ditto, the Osby track.

                              Comment

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