Has jazz run its course?

[Bryn]

Maybe, but in doing so, haven't you completely lost the original point of jazz?

Ahem.

[Richard Barrett]

Maybe, but in doing so, haven't you completely lost the original point of jazz?

You seem to want to have it both ways: innovations on the level of profundity of Armstrong et al. but still staying within what you decide is the "original point of jazz", whatever (as MrGG says) that might be. As for audiences, what do you actually know about the "tiny minority" of people you so confidently assert are the only ones capable of listening to the music I'm talking about? and, if it's a matter of degree, how small does an audience have to be before it fails the Rcartes test of musical relevance?

[Rcartes]

You seem to want to have it both ways: innovations on the level of profundity of Armstrong et al. but still staying within what you decide is the "original point of jazz", whatever (as MrGG says) that might be. As for audiences, what do you actually know about the "tiny minority" of people you so confidently assert are the only ones capable of listening to the music I'm talking about? and, if it's a matter of degree, how small does an audience have to be before it fails the Rcartes test of musical relevance?

For goodness' sake, I'm not trying to decide the point of jazz, just expressing an opinion. Isn't this board supposed to be for opinions?

[Richard Barrett]

For goodness' sake, I'm not trying to decide the point of jazz, just expressing an opinion. Isn't this board supposed to be for opinions?

You started this thread with a question.

[MrGongGong]

For goodness' sake, I'm not trying to decide the point of jazz, just expressing an opinion. Isn't this board supposed to be for opinions?

So what, to you, is the point of Jazz ?

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

So what, to you, is the point of Jazz ?

Has the point of "has jazz run its course" run its course?

50 years ago Martin Williams was talking of the Anti Jazz as Shepp, Dolphy and Coltrane. Who remembers Martin Williams now. Cept me.

BN

[Rcartes]

You started this thread with a question.

I did, and the implication was that jazz had indeed run its course. You disagree, and there's a sense in which i agree, in that, by setting aside all constraints, it's evolved into free jazz. So, another question: where does it go from here now it's done that?

So what, to you, is the point of Jazz ?

I'm beginning to regret raising that point! But I'll have a go: as well as to provide a means of expression for musicians, to entertain listeners. As to how many, somewhere in the middle between a few hipsters in a room above a pub on the one hand and the mass of musically illiterate population on the other. Would that do? Probably not to some of the posters here….

Has the point of "has jazz run its course" run its course?

I think it probably has….

50 years ago Martin Williams was talking of the Anti Jazz as Shepp, Dolphy and Coltrane. Who remembers Martin Williams now. Cept me. BN

I do, certainly, and I have several of his books, including The Art of Jazz and The Jazz Tradition, though I confess I haven't looked at them in a while.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

ah well i still re-read him El Senor

jazz has no point

jazz does not run

jazz has no course

long live jazz!

i like third stream and John Lewis's trying out new formal structures and the use of counterpoint by him and Giuffre and if Trish Clowes droopped the drummer and therefore played a bit harder/louder she would come close to getting it .....

[Quarky]

I'm beginning to regret raising that point! But I'll have a go: as well as to provide a means of expression for musicians, to entertain listeners. As to how many, somewhere in the middle between a few hipsters in a room above a pub on the one hand and the mass of musically illiterate population on the other. Would that do? Probably not to some of the posters here….

A room above a pub? Will the Vortex do? http://www.vortexjazz.co.uk/

Don't regret raising the point! It's just that there seems to be some self imposed arbitrary end stops between what you regard as jazz ( and therefore deserving of a listen) and "noise" (which is to be avoided).

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Calum, I was streaming Ran Blake and Paul Bley this morning. Maybe, as Ian suggests, they are now the mainstream. Who cares if they and others now "advance jazz or not"...whatever the fk the clock checkers think that is.

They connect. That's what art does. To the many or to the few.

"Only connect" - Henry James. No relationship to Harry.

BN.

Surely what hits first is the emotional connection, be it Trane Art Pepper Ayler Ornette Bley or Fathead Newman. Do people look at Cezanne and say that is SO yesterday? "Wise up Ceza, times have moved on"?

[Richard Barrett]

As to how many, somewhere in the middle between a few hipsters in a room above a pub on the one hand and the mass of musically illiterate population on the other. Would that do?

No numbers then. I suppose you're aware that "proper" jazz is often played to a few people above a pub, whereas (to name one example I'm personally familiar with) Evan's electroacoustic ensemble regularly fills venues in jazz festivals (London Jazz Festival at the QEH, Jazz em Agosto in Lisbon etc.) as well as venues devoted to contemporary composition (Muziekgebouw in Amsterdam, Donaueschinger Musiktage etc.), and on its last tour played 9 gigs in 10 days in three countries with a group of 14 players.

I don't expect you to accept this but the music continues to evolve and to gain new listeners, and basically as Calum says it has no course and it doesn't run... it's the healing force of the universe as someone once said. Embracing its continuing evolution doesn't imply rejecting what came before.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

"Only connect" - Henry James. No relationship to Harry.

I thought it was E M Forster. No relationship to lager.

[MrGongGong]

I've just walked past The Roundhouse where Status Quo are apparently playing tonight (OTO looks a better bet to me if I was staying in London) do you think it would be wise to go and tell the long queue of folks outside that they have "run their course" ?

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I thought it was E M Forster. No relationship to lager.

(Well, I thought it was really SWALEC for a long time)

Yes, my bad as the young people say.

BN.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

..and on the other hand there is the fact of age; i can recall the excitement of listening to my first lps [Charlie Parker on Savoy, Miles Davis Relaxin, Getz/Brookmeyer Interpretations Vol 2] and then hearing Mingus for the first time [that immortal quartet album] seeing Rollins & Kirk at Scotts and Coleman at Croydon and Scotts ... not had those feelings in a long while ... hearing Gilad Atzmon in a duo at a local gallery venue came close a few years ago.... but i am unsure that i can create the response any more ... my body certainly is unable to move as it once did .... i hear and listen attentively still ... but the thrill is visceral and that is now an echo of times gone and other flesh ...