Great drum solos

[Quarky]

One of the most inventive and gripping drum solos I've heard is from Frank Butler on 'A Fifth For Frank' with the Curtis Counce Quintet in 1956('Landslide').
Also impressive solos from tenorist Harold Land and the underrated trumpeter Jack Sheldon.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pARdKxnLuuA

A great track, Jazzrook, and a great thread, which has made me think again about the role of the drums in Jazz.

Sadly, as has been pointed out, the day of the drum solo is past, along with the swing era. Some drummers notable by absence of comment, but Max Roach, certainly my favourite drummer, was a game changer in many respects. According to Wiki:
In the early 1980s, Roach began presenting entire concerts solo, proving that this multi-percussion instrument could fulfill the demands of solo performance and be entirely satisfying to an audience. He created memorable compositions in these solo concerts; a solo record was released by Baystate, a Japanese label
For me, this is a bit OTT. I don't know whether anyone followed Max's example - may be Max proved a point, but in so doing, killed off the drum solo?

Drums are obviously absolutely central to Jazz. Ever present, and the concrete embodiment of the subtle rhythms which infuse Jazz performances, and distinguish Jazz from other art forms (including improv, I guess). But drums can't really compete with horns, piano, as a solo instrument.

[Serial_Apologist]

Drums are obviously absolutely central to Jazz. Ever present, and the concrete embodiment of the subtle rhythms which infuse Jazz performances, and distinguish Jazz from other art forms (including improv, I guess). But drums can't really compete with horns, piano, as a solo instrument.

For my own part I think they mostly are, since I often tend to infer imaginary drums when they're absent, and maybe this is some Rorshach-type compensation for what one aurally expects to be there. There are fine jazz musicians such as Tony Coe who prefer to do without drummers than be backed inappropriately as they see it; and then again since the Mingus trio of the dearly 1950s there have been groups in which a rhythmic emphasis is either so strongly emphasised (by Mingus's bass for instance) or, because short-term flexibility in tempo and rhythmic ambiguity are more important than conventional rhythmic periodicy, as in the Giuffre/Bley/Swallow trio of 10 years later, that drums become surplus to requirements or even counterproductive.

[Ian Thumwood]

I saw a concert with a re-constituted version of "Steps ahead" about ten years ago and the drummer , Steve Smith, presented solo spot where he performed a "composition" by Max Roach which was taught to him by Roach himself when he studied with the veteran drummer. I believe that the routine may in fact also have been taught to Max Roach by another drummer from an even earlier vintage. There was definitely a sense of heritage about the whole piece.

The idea is drum solos and drumming is something that I've always considered to be distorted by the primitive quality of the recording equipment in the 1920s that was often incapable of dealing with the volume coming from a drum set. This has made me suspicious as to how accurate the drums styles of the musicians playing in the 1920s were actually captured on records. I know that on many recordings the drummers didn't actually use all of their sets nor indeed drummed throughout the duration of the record. Modern drum sets didn't materialise until mid-20's and the modern idea of swing probably was absent at the music's inception. In Cuban music the role of the drums is ritualistic and pre-dates what we would now consider to be Latin music. I'm not quite convinced how "ritualistic" jazz drumming was or how much of "Africa" actually made it's way in to jazz drumming and how soon, if at all. There is a chapter in Schuller's "Early jazz" which dealt this this and it is likely to make your head spin - even if you cast aside any reservations regarding his ability as a social historian. As has been alluded to beforehand, the drum solo really took off in the late 1930's and the popularity of Goodman's "Sing, sing , sing" probably guaranteed that every big band of note had a similar Krupa-esque " arrangement. It would be fascinating to find out what the earliest records are of drum solos.

As someone who is as passionate about history as jazz, I find it frustrating that some of the earliest account of jazz tend to mythologise the origins and that there aren't too many accounts that explain the musical process. There are plenty of old photos of drum kits which I suppose would allow a percussion to understand what kind of sounds might be made but little information can be gleaned to understand just how drums drove (or didn't !) drive early jazz groups nor any idea of how sophisticated the first drum solos might have been. I know "manuals" on orchestration for jazz orchestras were being written around 1923/4 but it was a shame that there is no equivalent of an Aebersold guide to jazz drumming (or even soloing - until you get to Armstrong's "Hot breaks...") I suppose that the origins will never be properly ascertained and that the reflections of the likes of Baby Dodds, Tommy Benford and Paul Barbarin will be the extent of the likely knowledge. It would be brilliant to know if they shared the same sing era "bravura" or indeed understood the musical theory behind their playing or considered their soloing as an art.

I agree with SA about drums being integral with so much jazz. It is intriguing just how many "avant garde" players seem to take inspiration from earlier drumming styles such as Han Bennick and Hamid Drake and then to read accounts by contemporary drummers like Jeff Ballard who are extremely focussed on the ethnic roles of the instrument.

I would personally consider a drummer-less group as just another possible variant on the kind of jazz ensembles possible. There has been a component in jazz since the days of Teddy Wilson's "Just a mood" and some of the Venuti / Lang / Rollini kind of jazz from the 1920's. I don't share SA's subconscious imaginary drums when I hear these drummer-less groups and feel they have their own , distinct dynamic.

[Alyn_Shipton]

Ian I don't think Dodds, Benford or Barbarin could compete with this guy:

[Alyn_Shipton]

Or this guy:

[Alyn_Shipton]

Or the master...

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

Giuffre had a point of view about drummerless rhythm - he liked it



on the other hand the Jones/Paige/Greene machine was the most irresistible swing in the known history of the universe and Mr Jo Jones drove it ...

[Quarky]

Well the video clearly shows how Jo Jones did it - he had at least three drum sticks in each hand. Not to mention his feet - did he have shoes and socks off and used individual toes?

What about new boy Mark Giuliana - of Meliana fame. He's certainly generating a lot of hype. I seem to recall he emphasises precision, but not so pyrotechnical: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWk6qYKoKE0

His footwork not so neat as Jo Jones:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbZ23rHKO2w

And what about that elder statesman Joe Morello? He couldn't be matched on precision. The most famous drums solo of all time? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMu55k7COV0

[clive heath]

One of many examples of a drum solo being integral to the composition and not an extravagance as in many of the "Jazz at the Phil" concerts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb5jDWROk5k

excepting of course the earlier JJ which is mercifully concise compared to some of their shows in the 1960s at the Hammersmith Odeon.

[Jazzrook]

Big Sid Catlett with Louis Armstrong's All Stars ~ Boff Boff(1947): www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiY5KizALho

[Ian Thumwood]

Been slowly working my way through these clip. I love the Zutty Singleton clip. I'd forgotten about him and I didn't realise how much he sounds like Ed Blackwell - another great New Orleans drummer.

As far as Jo Jones goes, I'm with Calum and Alyn on this. I think the Basie / Page Greene / Jones rhythm section is a pivotal line up in the history of jazz, effectively making the point at which "vintage" jazz was replaced by a more modern feel. Looking back, Jo Jones was part of a unit which did for rhythm something that was every bit as significant was what Parker , etc did ten years later.

Amazed to see a call put out for the rock drummer Mark Guiliana by Oldball with whom I normally share a lot of the same opinion . I have one record with Guiliana on and that is Donny McCaslin's last effort. This was subject to a lot of debate last year as I know Calum and Charles are both fans. For me, Guiliana is the big problem with this record although the stodgy bass playing doesn't help either. He may be a great technician but I 'm not convinced by MG's jazz credentials. I've not heard the Mehldau record but there have been a lot of negative reviews as well. It sounds horrible and almost like some kind of public, midlife crisis for Mehldau as he tries for a jazz-rock record for shock value whereas his approach is about 4o years out of date. The drumming on McCaslin's record has put me entirely off this percussionist especially as he seems to have replaced the excellent Antonio Sanchez whose drumming is about as "commercial" in it's approach as I can take. Sanchez is always on the money when I've heard him live whereas Guiliana just reminds me of an even less inspiring Steve Gadd. Sorry to disagree on this one but MG's approach seems more of a betrayal of jazz than someone genuinely involved in the music. Listening to a machine like approach such as this, it makes me yearn for a sparser and looser style whether it is Jo Jones, Baby Dodds, Paul Motian or Hamid Drake. (Am I the only one on this board who seems to rate HD - a towering genius of what jazz drumming should be????)

[clive heath]

If I may slightly subvert the thread title to the extent of suggesting a drummer's reputation should not rest on drum solos alone, can I support Jazzrook's commendation of both Frank Butler and Jack Sheldon both of whom can be heard on Art Pepper's album "Smack Up" which just happens to be one of the LPs on the non-classical page of my site. If any introductions are needed to the musicianship of these two you could do worse than to metaphorically give them a spin. The third track on side 1 is "A Bit of Basie", Buddy Collette's 24-bar tune, in which, as is often the case, the drum solo is a trading of 4s (or other multiples of 2 !). However Frank Butler's drumming throughout the whole track is excellent in particular the snicketty pattern he sets up as the piano solo progresses.

http://www.cliveheathmusic.co.uk/vinyl2.php

Incidentally, on Curtis Counce's album "Carl's Blues", which also has lovely Harold Land contributions, there is a complete track given over to Frank Butler's solo " The Butler Did It". I've found "La Rue", a feature for Harold Land, and "Nica's Dream" from this album on you-tube. There may be more, good hunting!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtFiX8vLfMY

While on my site you could seek out Ellington's Blanton-Webster band's "Jumpin Punkins" which is a much earlier "Cute"-type integration of the drummer's (Sonny Greer's) skill into the composition (or you can find it on you-tube). The page under the heading "78s" is "Duke 3".

[Ian Thumwood]

Oldball

The Guiliana clips are curious as they seem more informed by techno than jazz. I think that he is technical accomplished but his approach has nothing to do with the heritage from Zutty Singleton through to Hamid Drake. Much is made in jazz regarding an alleged "African" origin of drums but I can't hear anything of this in Guiliana approach. It is interesting to speculate on the African influence but perhaps more interesting to think about things like swing , syncopation and groove. There is a groove in Guiliana's playing but it doesn't swing. It's just too rigid and too square. If I'm honest, I hate his playing. I'd rather have Nasheet Waits, Hamid Drake, Antonio Sanchez, Eric Harland, Billy Hart, Frank Rosaly, Clarence Penn, etc to the kind of groove based and jazz-less style of Guiliano.

[gradus]

Gene Krupa on the 1938 Sing Sing Sing recording from the Goodman Carnegie Hall concert. Solo-ish.

[Ian Thumwood]

Gene Krupa on the 1938 Sing Sing Sing recording from the Goodman Carnegie Hall concert. Solo-ish.

A defining piece of music, in my opinion, although Jess Stacey's piano solo at the end is a masterstroke.