JRR 6 Sept 14

**BLUESNIK'S REVOX** · 05-09-14, 19:05

Thanks Alyn, looks a good mix. Shame "Long ago and.far away" couldn't have been played for Obama who has just departed my vision with his window rattling helicopters and 9000 bored cops. @Nato Newport.

No to.

BN.

**Serial_Apologist** · 05-09-14, 21:01

There is a version of Karl Jenkins's "Lullaby for a Lonely Child" on the Nucleus album "We'll Talk About it Later", also with KJ in the line-up, recorded one year after the Collier album featured ninth in tomorrow's progamme. I wonder how many will hear a semblance to Duke Ellington's tune "The Mooch", though the bridge does vary, with The Duke's tune breaking into blues changes.

**Ian Thumwood** · 06-09-14, 08:12

Fantastic to be able to hear "wolverine Blues" again as I think this is one of the records you could cite as demonstrating that Louis Armstrong continued to retain his powers as he entered his third decade as a performer. The Armstrong big band often gets slated yet they did manage to record some good music even if the leader's trumpet remained the star attraction. the line up seems pretty impressive and it is interesting to see Joe Garland in the personnel as I believe he is the person frequently credited with composing "In the mood" - albeit the theme has very early antecedents.

I have been playing Kenny Dorham's "Una Mas" this week after snapping this up cheaply following my enthusiasm for the (superior) "Our thing" by Joe Henderson. Listening to this record is a curious experience and I would not be surprised if many fans coming to Dorham would feel disappointed in his approach which eschewed the brashness of other Blue Note trumpeters like Clifford Brown, Lee Morgan and perhaps Freddie Hubbard. It got me thinking that Dorham of one of the few trumpeters to really go against the grain and not play with the kind of bravura associated with the instrument which has it's antecedents with Oliver and Keppard but which very much became cemented with Armstrong. I feel that Dorham is one of a handful of players that pursued an alternative path and even Miles' wholly original approach still had the kind of drama about it that wasn't as much of a departure from the horn's heritage as is the case with Dorham. If Dorham is similar to anyone, I feel that it might be Don Cherry or even Bill Dixon - not heard too much by the latter , though. The dynamics of Kenny Dorham's approach sounds alien in comparison with someone like Lee Morgan and he seems more interested in playing eccentric improvised lines, weird harmonic resolutions and a gamut of timbres than making a declamatory statement. His writing is also more thoughtful than your average Blue note artist with more writing of parts and far more attention to making an arrangement to liven up the usual head-solo-head formula. He was a fascinating player and far more interesting than his reputation suggests. It's interesting that he should have been signed to Blue Note who had a track record of signing musicians who were unorthodox although usually pianists such as Monk, Nichols, Hill and Taylor. Dorham deserves to be up there with Brown, Hubbard and Morgan - I would also argue that , of these four, Dorham would be the only one who would not sound out of play in 2014. You only have to hear someone like Ambrose Akinmusire to appreciate this.

I think it is fascinating to find musicians who defy the "heritage" on their instrument and perhaps perform in a manner that is counter to the expectations. There aren't too many of them outside of pianists but I suppose you could also include the bassist Charlie Haden and clarinettist Jimmy Guiffre but I think the best example (or at least comparable to Dorham) is the guitarist Jeff Parker whose approach specifically opposes the notion to a solo achieving a creative arc - decidedly odd in comparison with the reputation of the electric guitar. For my money, Akinmusire is perhaps the only trumpet player around who has followed the approach hinted by Dorham and he does remind me more of KD than any other influence he might have. Never read an interview where he has cited KD but they do sound very similar to my ears.

Might be an interesting topic of conversation?

**BLUESNIK'S REVOX** · 06-09-14, 10:23

Huge admirer of Kenny ever since I bought Whistle Stop on import when I was 15. One thing I have noticed over the years is how "composer like" his solo lines were. He has a blues solo that he kept developing thro the decade. Ckout Blue Friday or Buffalo. His daughter told me that he felt he had true recognition from those who "really mattered". And that would include Miles, Booker Little, Golson, Henderson, Andrew Hill etc. Hugely respected.

BN.

I have a late Sept request into JRR for Kenny's Yesterdays with Blakey. Utterly gorgeous.

As to the Cherry link, Ckout the Jazzland "Two Horns" album with Ernie Henry and Wilbur Ware. The pianist didn't show up and its fascinating.

**BLUESNIK'S REVOX** · 06-09-14, 16:34

Really enjoyable program. Highspot for me was the Collier track and Carl Perkin's comping with Art Pepper. Almost a duel. Also the final Barber track brought back loads of memories. Haven't heard that for years.

BN.

**Ian Thumwood** · 06-09-14, 17:13

Bluesnik

Can't believe that you didn't enjoy the Fivehouse Five plus two!

The jury is out for me as far as Horace Silver is concerned. The groups are pretty tight and the writing just about has even harmonic interest to keep you hooked. It think Silver set his standard at a comfortable level without pushing himself so he always seemed to met his objectives.

It's odd how tastes differ as the tracks which stood out for me were the Armstrong one and the recording by Benny Carter which matched Coltrane's more celebrated version in my opinion. I love Carter's playing and think he was extremely under-rated. Just like Coleman Hawkins, he kept up with the times. Great tone too.

**BLUESNIK'S REVOX** · 06-09-14, 17:43

Firehouse Five can do no wrong. I also liked the Benny Carter track a lot. Pepper had a lot of BC in his earlier tone. "Art was a good boy when he worked with me", Benny Carter. Also good to hear Nick Evans with Collier. My primary and grammar school contemp

BN.

**Ian Thumwood** · 06-09-14, 18:28

Wondered if you watched "Who do you think you are?" on Thursday. I kept thinking of you when it was on because it concerned the history of the banjo. The documentary's subject, the extremely annoying Sheridan Smith, discovered that her great, great Grandfather was a virtuoso banjo player in the late 1890's and she was inspired enough to buy an instrument and learn it herself. She was completely irritating before she decided to learn this instrument but she was beyond redemption as soon as she started to learn to play "Home, sweet, home."

The amazing thing for me was that this instrument seemed to be really in vogue in the second half of the 19th century and I had no idea that it was so popular in this country. The programme missed a trick when it tried to explain the music hall circuit by failing to mention anything about the repertoire but it did reveal that the instrument's success was attributable to the fact that it was so easy to play. I was left with the impression of teenage, Victorian boys sitting in their bed-rooms shredding on their banjos. (Sounds like something they might say on "the inbetweeners!" What was fascinating was the inference that there were also a number of string bands going around the circuits which was something Alyn mentions in his book as occurring in the pre-jazz days in New Orleans. Strangely, the programme made no reference to Gottschalk who famously composed a piano composition called "The banjo." I would tend to share your opinion that it is generally the instrument from hell (albeit I love Bela Fleck and do like some banjo solo's on a number of historic jazz recordings such as those by Bennie Moten) but the programme could have been a fascinating account of popular music at the time immediately before records and radio gave it a far wider degree of popularity. I wasn't at all appreciative of the craze for this instrument in Victorian Britain - the country was truly one without Music as suggest by the notorious German critic.

**Serial_Apologist** · 06-09-14, 21:52

Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View Post

Firehouse Five can do no wrong. I also liked the Benny Carter track a lot. Pepper had a lot of BC in his earlier tone. "Art was a good boy when he worked with me", Benny Carter. Also good to hear Nick Evans with Collier. My primary and grammar school contemp

BN.

Sad Nick's not playing any more. Teeth the problem, I understand.

**BLUESNIK'S REVOX** · 07-09-14, 06:21

Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post

Sad Nick's not playing any more. Teeth the problem, I understand.

The teeth will get you in the end.

"Evans, whose band Dreamtime is featured on
a triple CD retrospective "Double Trouble" (Reel Recordings), was sought out by bandleaders such as Chris McGregor for his strong, direct and blustery voice on trombone.

It was the kind of timbre which suited him to
the same role which Roswell Rudd occupied in
Charlie Haden's Liberation Orchestra, also in
the late sixties, when, in the words of Robert
Kennedy, people could "dream of things that
never were and ask why not."

Forty years on, Evans still vividly remembers
the free-wheeling spirit of those days. Having
attended just one small-hours jam session in a
state when he was "unable to sleep and
unable to stand," a few weeks later he
received a call from band leader Chris
McGregor who had also been at the jam. "Why
aren't you at the rehearsal?" Evans didn't need
to be asked twice. He shot straight out of the
door, and became an integral part of the
Brotherhood with Dudu Pukwana, Harry
Miller, Mongezi Feza and McGregor himself.
Evans toured Europe and made several albums
with them. If he had doubts about fitting in
with such company at the outset, he soon
"found my own strength."

BN.

**aka Calum Da Jazbo** · 07-09-14, 10:55

the Collier track was the one that caught my ear ... stunning group not really heard much of until recently

**Serial_Apologist** · 07-09-14, 16:16

Originally posted by aka Calum Da Jazbo View Post

the Collier track was the one that caught my ear ... stunning group not really heard much of until recently

That particular line-up didn't last long, consisting as it did of people in-between other bands, such as the Keith Tippett Septet, John Surman Octet, Nucleus and Soft Machine: Harry Beckett, the first-ever trumpet player in Graham Collier Music, staying the longest; but it was pioneering in more than being among the first one could describe as jazz-rock: the track "Aberdeen Angus" using James Brown's chopped rhythms for possibly the first time for a non-American group.

**BLUESNIK'S REVOX** · 07-09-14, 17:00

Guardian 6/2012...

Collier, the bandleader and bassist,
sadly died last year. But drummer John
Marshall remembers his part in the
birth of British jazz-rock.

"The 60s came late to jazz," he says.
"The 60s energy. The 60s in jazz were
more like 1965 to 1975. The jazz scene
in London was absolutely buzzing. It
coincided with a big influx of young
musicians coming into London. Ronnie
Scott's was the hub. It was like a
hothouse. There was a youthful energy,
a desire to get away from what had
gone before.

"There was a change to the culture in
this country – people were very creative
and self-confident, and not in the
shadow of the States."

Was this because of the success of
groups such as the Beatles and the
Stones?

"Yes, it was mainly because of the pop
music scene, which just exploded. But at
the beginning of that, jazz was seen as
the enemy."

Marshall explains: "The jazz scene can
be extraordinarily conservative, partly
because people become very good on
their instruments. So if they see
someone getting away with it …"

But the British pop explosion provided
opportunities for jazz musicians. "There
were lots of gigs doing pop covers. They
were often very good bands, and I
really liked it. I did a long tour with
Scott Walker, who had a fantastic band.
And he was a very good singer. I also
started playing with Jack Bruce. I found
playing rock gigs easy, but a lot of
people didn't."

Marshall joined Collier's group since
1966, when Collier returned from
Boston, where he'd been the first Briton
to graduate from the jazz course at the
Berklee College of Music: "I felt
immediately at home, because the music
had that Charlie Mingus influence. It
was not the normal jazz writing, it
wasn't so bebop oriented. It was more
open and varied.

"I'd done a lot of shows that involved
reading music. You had an overall
structure, but you'd have a lot of choices
inside it. There was a lot of quite
conventional writing for jazz, with a
theme and then a series of solos. But
Graham's philosophy was, how to find a
role for the composer in improvising
music. His structures were ways around
solving that problem. Things were very
fluid within these structures."

What does he remember about the
recording of Down Another Road?
"Not much! There was a Saturday
evening session, and then all day
Sunday."

I express astonishment at the speed at
which the album was recorded. "That
wasn't unusual for a jazz album," says
Marshall. "It's partly economical, though
back then the music scene was so big,
there was room for a lot more things.
And record companies were willing to
finance it."

BN.

**Ian Thumwood** · 07-09-14, 17:04

Bluesnik

That is an interesting interview which is intriguing following the discussion on the other thread a few weeks ago about the quality of the British jazz scene in the 1950's / 60's. These comments in this interview certainly match my perception.

JRR 6 Sept 14

JRR 6 Sept 14

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