Trajectory from the tradition

[Ian Thumwood]

In the light of some of the recent discussions on this board which have considered issues such as too many bassists playing walking lines and the role of heritage in the development of jazz, this interview with Eric Revis seems quite timely. The discussion picks up on some interesting points which challenge the notion about understanding the tradition. This is a really good interview, in my opinion, and illustrates why this bassist understands there to be a continuum from the jazz of Jelly Roll Morton through to the likes of William Parker - both cited in this piece. It sums up my feeling about jazz completely and why the music of earlier generations is important in trying to make the music relevant today. Curious to see a comment about how the scene has changed since the 1990's. I'm largely familiar with Revis' work with Branford Marsalis' stellar quartet and had no idea of his association with the likes of Jason Moran, Andrew Cyrille, Oliver Lake, Marc Ducret, Tarbaby and Ken Vandermark let alone earlier generations such as Frank Foster and Lionel Hampton.

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/eric-revis-trajectory-from-the-tradition-eric-revis-by-rj-deluke.php?&pg=1#.U_zJR5Ug_IU

For me, this effectively nails what the best of the contemporary scene has to offer.

[Ian Thumwood]

Revis / Vandermark / Moran / Waits play Jelly Roll Morton ....

[Serial_Apologist]

In the light of some of the recent discussions on this board which have considered issues such as too many bassists playing walking lines and the role of heritage in the development of jazz, this interview with Eric Revis seems quite timely. The discussion picks up on some interesting points which challenge the notion about understanding the tradition. This is a really good interview, in my opinion, and illustrates why this bassist understands there to be a continuum from the jazz of Jelly Roll Morton through to the likes of William Parker - both cited in this piece. It sums up my feeling about jazz completely and why the music of earlier generations is important in trying to make the music relevant today. Curious to see a comment about how the scene has changed since the 1990's. I'm largely familiar with Revis' work with Branford Marsalis' stellar quartet and had no idea of his association with the likes of Jason Moran, Andrew Cyrille, Oliver Lake, Marc Ducret, Tarbaby and Ken Vandermark let alone earlier generations such as Frank Foster and Lionel Hampton.

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/eric-revis-trajectory-from-the-tradition-eric-revis-by-rj-deluke.php?&pg=1#.U_zJR5Ug_IU

For me, this effectively nails what the best of the contemporary scene has to offer.

What we have today is the effective disenfranchimesment of working class struggles for justice and a more equal share once encapsulated in jazz praxis with dawning recognition from practitioners and followers, now reflected in a redefinition of the music's present's relationship to its own past. So what we have is the academicisation of the form being prioritised as a means of standardising formulas in order to make them containable and therefore safe. This has I believe being going on since the early 1980s, coincidental with the rise of the free market establishment, especially in America, with what was once an extension of collective self-emancipation against prevailing values being re-made in the image of technical proficiency for its own sake, the hallmark of capitalist efficiency, so that from decrying free jazz as historically anomalous we have now reached the stage when the riskier elements have been reintroduced courtesy educational establishments until all corners are covered, all awkwardnesses smoothed out.

What it all means is that jazz is in the process of replacing cutting edge classical modernist music, which has bar a few notable brave exceptions lost its way and its nerve, with a music of multicultural inputs reflecting the global market coming to the fore as the one genre pushing the entire frontier of more easily marketable music, mostly cross-genre, forward. The aestheticisation of jazz has brought about its termination as a socially and politically vanguardist manifestation of power is search of a welcoming political framework for humanity and the planet as a whole, and its diminution to a sophisticate's aesthetic pastime. The revolutionary imperative is given as couple of days a month at the Vortex at best; for the rest some will scratch a living perfecting a simulacrum of past glories with the rough edges knocked off, and we will encourage and applaud their progress. But life will no longer resonate through music as emblematic of change the way it once did, whether you thought it was Stockhausen, Ornette Coleman, Bob Marley or James Brown who were the message-bearers into a better future, and people will need to remember those dates in their diaries.

[Ian Thumwood]

Um........................

The reason I posted the link to the article was that Revis might be considered to be playing from in the mainstream as a bassist in Branford Marsalis' band but that his viewpoint regarding the music is far more wide-ranging than you might have perceived. Any misconceptions you might have had are clearly blown away and whilst he is correct to identify a continuum within jazz, the essence remains that the best players are truly saying something whereas some musicians championed by the press and the listening audience might be producing something that is more cosmetic. At the end of the day, it's all about the music and I'm afraid that I don't really buy in to your argument - not least because some of Revis' music is obviously political! Check out the samples on his latest RogueArt CD. There is no question of this being music that echoes past glories with the rough edges knocked off. My interest was piqued by the fact that the article revealed that these musicians were very open to pushing the boundaries and working with diverse and unexpected players. (Vandermark and Lake, for example.) It was a good interview and reinforced my perception of the validity and integrity of today's jazz musicians as well as highlighting how the scene has changed even since the 1990's.

Anyway, hearing Ken Vandermark playing Jelly Roll Morton has got to intrigue any serious jazz fan......

[Serial_Apologist]

Anyway, hearing Ken Vandermark playing Jelly Roll Morton has got to intrigue any serious jazz fan......

Well, there have nearly always been leading jazz musicians who have made explicit tributes to the past: qv Bobby Hackett's "I'm Coming Virginia" homage to Bix at the 1938 Carnegie Hall concert, or Jaki Byard's extraordinary Tatum imitation backing Roland Kirk on "Memories of You"; but such tributes were never I believe seen as being a prime focus for or by them, either as novelty features or to demonstrate long-term fidelity to some presumed embedded tradition, because previous generations of innovators took off from the stage the music had reached at the point at which they made their entry, and would probably have considered going back to cross every uncrossed T or dot every I as pedantry detracting from the issues in hand. And that was because jazz was plugged into issues that were at hand. This is not to undermine jazz's curators, any more than to consign performances of Monteverdi or Mozart to the dustbin; it is rather to argue against a notion of innovation that has taken hold in much "jazz appreciation" today.

I did not express myself at all well in my post last night - there's a lesson to be had there: leave the forum alone if you come home the worse for drink after attending a disappointing gig, even when it seems to encapsulate points you may have been bottling up for some time! My message will have to stand as some kind of lesson for posterity, it being too late now to delete. Apologies for my being intemperate!

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

none needed; in fact your franfurterish tone made me reach for my Schuller!

instead someone Revis fails ignominiously to reference:

http://www.jazzweekly.com/interviews/rdavis.htm

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/richard-davis-there-he-bows-richard-davis-by-andrey-henkin.php#.U_26ZvldWSo

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

"In Vino Veritas"!

Although as me old mate Marcel Proust (accordian) used to say... “Remembrance of things past is not
necessarily the remembrance of things as
they were.”

Esp after sixteen pints of home brew.

BN.

[Serial_Apologist]

Not a sausage...

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

the arrangement of this chamber jazz is as close to perfect as it gets ... subtle swinging and dynamic it is one of the very best tracks of jazz that sets out to honour the tradition ever recorded:

[oh and check out the bass line!]

[Serial_Apologist]

the arrangement of this chamber jazz is as close to perfect as it gets ... subtle swinging and dynamic it is one of the very best tracks of jazz that sets out to honour the tradition ever recorded:

Yeah, thass cos, as I was a-saying, of its time - you get me? of it's time, as I was a-sayin'.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

yeah and no beans niver

[Serial_Apologist]

Rivers ~~~~~~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bisN-z_4CnA

[Ian Thumwood]

Well, there have nearly always been leading jazz musicians who have made explicit tributes to the past: qv Bobby Hackett's "I'm Coming Virginia" homage to Bix at the 1938 Carnegie Hall concert, or Jaki Byard's extraordinary Tatum imitation backing Roland Kirk on "Memories of You"; but such tributes were never I believe seen as being a prime focus for or by them, either as novelty features or to demonstrate long-term fidelity to some presumed embedded tradition....

SA

I'll have to differ with you on that one! The problem with making that kind of statement is that you're projecting your own prejudices on those of the artist creating the work. Most jazz fans have their own kind of notion as to why something is "innovative" and this will largely be dictated by the music they grew up listening as well as being informed by other fans, critics or books on the subject. By and large, the polarisation of New-Neo's and the avant garde / experimental side of jazz has largely been left behind by the close of the 1980's. This article is a prime example of the more open-minded approach of musicians these days and the fact that musicians are more libertarian in their approach.

The interest in the article for me was the absence of any categorisation of styles and how musicians seek out varied playing opportunities. It is a good thing that a musician can play with musicians as diverse as Lionel Hampton, Frank Foster, Kurt Rosenwinkel, Oliver Lake or Ken Vandermark. There are some interesting comments about the lack of jam sessions and the pursuit of gigs which also made me intrigued.

As far as performing the JRM composition, why do you assume that these musicians weren't being serious when they recorded "Winin' Boy Blues?" You seem to have over-looked the fact that they certainly chose to play it because it is a great tune. In nearly 100 years of recorded history, jazz has built up a formidable repertoire and I see no reason why compositions from any early era can't be plundered and re-shaped in a current idiom. In fact, I think I would vociferously encourage it because there is a massive body of repertoire that is neglected and over-looked. I'd much rather hear someone perform Duke, MLW, Mingus, Herbie Nichols, Jimmy Heath, Freddie Redd, Sonny Clark, Wayne Shorter, etc, etc than over-familiar standards.

I think the whole idea of "innovation" really dogs jazz and it is something all fans of guilty of. The issue shouldn't be innovation but creativity and, in that respect, the Revis track was a resounding success. There are some salient points made in the interview about who is really playing and those unjustly lauded by some.

This article really resonated with me and Revis is right to talk about a continuum. Sorry to beg to differ on this one but the points made by this basis neatly summed up how I feel about jazz as a fan of the music.

[Ian Thumwood]

Shame that there aren't other samples from this album (The smash up of Eddie Condon's "Liza" is a gem) , but here is another good example of the jazz continuum, if you like. This is as good a version of "Jada" as when Bob Brookmeyer produced his excellent "Traditionalism revisited" albeit probably the most "normal" track on the record.

For what it is worth, Berman is a big noise in the current Chicago contemporary jazz / free improve scene and also something of an authority on 1920's jazz. The whole album is a kind of homage to Eddie Condon - I don't think the guitarist would have dug it though!