Small's Jazz Club NewsLetter... Moanin'

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

"Rollins, who turns 84 next month and has not
been in great health lately, was given the chance
to express his feelings in a video interview with
Doug Yoel. It’s half an hour long and sometimes
repetitive, but stick with it. Looking back over
a career that began in the late 1940s, Rollins
says he remembers articles proclaiming “Jazz is
dead” in magazines every five or 10 years
throughout that time. “Jazz has been mocked,
minimalised and marginalised throughout its
history,” he says. Now Django Gold and the
editors of a magazine’s website have done their
bit. Jazz is still a part of New York, but evidently
no longer an important part of the New Yorker."

- Richard Williams @ Blue Moment Blog. August 2014

A very good blog. Good piece also on the recent Kenny Wheeler benefit concert.

BN.

indeed and this is a link to it

in it he comments a propos the battle of the bands &c:

The informality of the amateur bands assembled for Balkan weddings, Sicilian funerals or Andalucian saints’ day parades seemed more appropriate to the spirit of jazz than the militaristic discipline associated with, say, the Buddy Rich Orchestra. It was something that Duke Ellington and Charlie Mingus had always known, but they were thought to be exceptions to the rule that if you have four trumpeters, they should start and finish a phrase as if they were four mouthpieces attached to a single instrument, rather than the voices of four individuals.

Something similar happened in rock music when the Band came along. The voices of Richard Manuel, Rick Danko and Levon Helm were distinct from each other, each with its own tone and grain. This cross-textured quality set their harmonies apart from those of, say, the Beach Boys and the Four Seasons, who aimed to produce a unified, homogenised choral sound.

I was thinking about that while listening to the saxophonist Marius Neset and the 11-piece Trondheim Jazz Orchestra perform pieces from their recent ACT album, Lion, at Ronnie Scott’s last night. These conservatory-trained Norwegians are phenomenal technicians, and the compositions Neset has provided for them are complex and challenging, to say the least, but the collective attack of the ensemble has nothing to do with nanosecond exactness and everything to do with the human element of a dozen people playing together. That humanity was the overriding impression left by an hour and a half of exceptional music.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

indeed and this is a link to it

Thanks Calum. There is also a fascinating piece on there about Barney Wilen, someone I have been listening to more and more lately. Great little clip of him on Utube with Bud, Clark Terry, Klook etc live at the St. Germain.

BN.

[Ian Thumwood]

Calum

I found the opening paragraph to be a really shoddy piece of generalising as bad in it's way as the article that initiated the thread. The judgement of performance by big bands where precision is juxtaposed against individual creativity is a total nonsense but the issue surely lies in getting band to phrase properly. The opening gambit is really an old-fashioned, out-of-kilter idea borne out of the old stereo types of non-jazz groups in the UK like Ted Heath that were well rehearsed and performing regularly in contrast to the more ad-hoc jazz ensembles of the 50's / 60's which were often assembled for limited periods. Even this doesn't stack up as many of these ad-hoc ensembles like Tubby Hayes' still managed to perform well and produce great jazz.

Some big bands play jazz , other don't. Criticising the Buddy Rich band is a nonsense. Granted in was precise yet the jazz quotient was never compromised and he used some great soloists like Art Pepper and Steve Marcus as well as writings such as Bill Holman who knew how to write for a larger ensemble. To single out the Liberation Music Orchestra, Mingus and Duke as some kind of guardians of the truth is ridiculous. (whilst excluding the most obvious example of "Brotherhood of Breath.) Haden's band could sometimes be a bit shaggy in live performance whereas Mingus was erratic. the current Mingus band is an exceptional orchestra nailing the music precisely yet with the degree of tearaway aggression that few other bands can manage. Bobby Sanabria's big band is probably the nearest when it comes to playing with abandon. Elsewhere, there are musicians I admire like David Murray whose forays in to big band writing has under-whelmed and have proved to be pretty ragged whenever I've heard them perform live on a couple of occasions.

The interesting thing for me is that some of these journalists seem divorced from the larger picture with the big band jazz scene and probably are unaware that it is composition for these types of ensembles that is where a good proportion of the most adventurous kind of jazz is happening. Don't know if you read the interview with Jason Lindner on "All about jazz" this week as he has some intriguing thoughts:-

https://:http://www.allaboutjazz.com...-a-matzner.php

I also met arranger Steve Owen last month and he made some really pertinent comments about jazz writing for larger ensembles. I don't think the idea of non-jazz v jazz groups really exists anymore as 99% of big bands around now perform jazz as the nostalgia market for bands such as Ted Heath's has diminished.

I suppose there are big bands that leave me a bit cold such as the Phat Band but even Gordon Goodwin's latest seems more switched on that previous efforts of theirs that have under-impressed.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

not ssure that i can agree fully Ian; the early New Orleans, Harlem and Kansas CIty ensembles would have been rather more like the opening paragraph than not ... but what one might ask, leads one to leap up and twirl [not at all a pretty sight!] when the Basie Band kicks off, and snap the remote control to switch channels on those dire professional session ensembles at Prom 30?

i like the Buddy Rich Band; i find Stan Kenton occasionally entrancing; have deep admiration and liking for the Brookmeyer, Mulligan Concert Big bands and Vanguard Orchestra and a few more .... as well as the usual favourites like Thad J and Meol L and the Tubby Hayes ..... i have seen many of them which is why i found Prom 30 a travesty and much prefer the rawer honesty of the early Humph ensembles with Bruce Turner for their driving and raw swing [not as tightly rehearsed live as on record, perhaps too much green tea?]

[Ian Thumwood]

Calum

I think the opening paragraph was way too generalised. Some bands are better rehearsed than others. Goodman's bands were exceptionally well drilled. Ditto Artie Shaw. Tommy Dorsey's band was notoriously ragged and difficult to rehearse. A band like Jimmie Lunceford's was highly rated by his contemporaries for the proficiency of the ensemble playing which was amongst the highest standard achieved at that time. Go back further and you find musicians like Fate Marable and Fletcher Henderson equally fastidious about rehearsing their bands. You don't diminish the quality of jazz by more rehearsal - it improves it. This is true of all music. Why do you think Blue Note records produced a consistently high standard of music that put most of the other labels to shame? A lot of this can be credited to the fat that Alfred Lions paid for rehearsal time before the musicians entered the studio. Basically, the opening gambit of the review of the concert is complete rubbish and idiotic.

With larger ensembles the trick is to get the phrasing correct. Basie's original outfit was initially pretty rough when the band first arrived in New York but it was originally a much smaller band of about 10 pieces when it performed at the Reno Club in Kansas City with a number of more experienced players like Buck Clayton who already had a great pedigree with other bands being drafted in by John Hammond. Ditto Freddie Greene. The initial performances in New York were met with criticism due to poor intonation and a lack of scores as the band relied in heads. I think Fletcher Henderson initially loaned Basie some charts. I'm not convinced about the accuracy of the statement about lack of precision with older ensembles even if you go back to the likes of Jelly Roll Morton whose music was largely scored and well played. By the time the Basie band was recording for Decca it was a totally different band than the one that had played in Kansas City. By the time the band hit it's stride in the late 30's / early 40's it was probably the most musically perfect band playing from the perception of playing jazz phrases.

It's a shame that the article seemed to perpetuate stereotypes about larger ensembles. The idea that bands play with militaristic discipline is complete rubbish. The best jazz groups combined well rehearsed playing with excellent writing and creative soloists. Mingus music took a lot of rehearsal in order to sound spontaneous - they didn't just pick up their instruments and magically produce music that sounded that organic solely through the fact that they were jazz musicians. It's all subjective so that someone like Brookmeyer can slaughter Wynton's LCJO through his perceived inability to phrase. What annoys me is that there is an implied suggestion that well-rehearsed band lead to bad jazz. If anything, poorly rehearsed bands lead to bad jazz!

It didn't hear the Prom but my Dad said that it was a good concert and the review on London Jazz is extremely favourable. As for "rawer honesty" this is almost as ridiculous at the initial statement in the article. Anything at the Proms is likely to be tame but I don't agree that a rougher sounding band would produce better jazz. Granted there are a few bands around like MTO who tend to rehearse on the gig and play with a degree of fluidity and abandon that is the exception rather than the rule yet this skill has been acquired due to the fact the band has been around for so long. You don't get big bands sounding spontaneous without drilling them "militarily" and where those bands that are around that do have a machine like quality about them such as Gordon Goodwin's technically awesome big band, the lack of "interest" isn't due to any spontaneity being rehearsed out it is because of the arrangements and maybe more to the fact that Goodwin is an all round musician and multi-instrumentalist immersed as much in the Disney corporate machine as in the world of out and out jazz.

[charles t]

Ian: I have enjoyed your tracts about big bands. Thanks!

I spoke once to a tenor player who was a section player with Buddy Rich's band. Although he spoke favorably about the gig

with Buddy, he did share that Buddy always made the band members focus their attention exclusively upon their leader -

whenever he soloed!

[Serial_Apologist]

Ian: I have enjoyed your tracts about big bands. Thanks!

I spoke once to a tenor player who was a section player with Buddy Rich's band. Although he spoke favorably about the gig

with Buddy, he did share that Buddy always made the band members focus their attention exclusively upon their leader -

whenever he soloed!

Ruddy bitch!

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

Ruddy bitch!

If you are curious about what the US would be like under the Nazis, ck/out the Buddy Rich band tapes on Utube. Buddy balling out/screaming abuse at the bass and trombone players post concert....and their 70s facial hair! Very funny.

BN.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

"She (Dusty Springfield) was booked to appear along-side the jazz drummer Buddy Rich and his band in
New York, but Rich resented a mere "pop"
singer getting bigger billing than his. He
sabotaged her opening night by turning his
own performance into a sprawling comedy
act, inviting a string of celebrities up on
stage, running an hour over time and
exhausting the audience.

Throughout the rest of the run, he refused-
to allow his band enough rehearsal time
with Dusty and used his role as compere --to
mock her "third-rate" talent. After struggling
through in tears every night, Dusty finally
slapped Rich across the face in a fury. He
threatened to sue her for assault."

She should have shot him.

BN.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i was informed by a professor of a brass instrument at a noted music college that the Ellington Band played out of tune ... i don't doubt it takes hard work to be good Ian but pitch perfect metronomic is not always what matters in a performance ... the later Basie Bands went off the boil when they became the perfect band [still bloody marvellous imho] but not at all like this:

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I think, like a great many things, it depends on context and intent. For the Brotherhood of Breath say, to have aimed for the precision of Basie or a Shorty Rogers BB date would have been absurd and defeating. That is not what they were about. They had their own discipline.

Context, Context, Context as we say in the Historical Materialism master classes. Sorry, full this year.

BN

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

and speaking of rehearsals:

now a band like that would have made a good Prom; not trying to copy something trying to create it .... you can not become that which you copy just with luck better at copying but you will not develop creativity in the way of the original just a closer rendition of the template .... raw/smooth is not the issue ... being an authentic copy does not ring true does it?

authentic original jazz would be most welcome on the Proms, and in her favour Ms Mluva gave us that ....

[Ian Thumwood]

It would have been good to hear new, create orchestral jazz at a Prom and I think more modern groups have been featured although there seems a lack of recognition amongst the Proms organisers as where these "serious" music is being produced. Brookmeyer would have been an exceptional example but any of his students such as Schneider, Argue or Hollenbeck would similarly be a good call.

The later Basie band eventually became a bit of a pastiche of itself although I think it always remained a very good ensemble. Some of the late material the band was given to play may not have been lacking by any of the writers for the "New Testament" band from Thad Jones, Chico O'Farrell or Sammy Nesticoe all produced excellent writer. Less impressed by Neil Hefti's chart, though but maybe this is a consequence of over-familiarity.

Regarding the Ellington band, it's interesting to read that comment. They could sometimes be rugged and one of my friends heard the orchestra in the last UK tour when the likes of Johnny Coles were in the band and he said they were awful. This isn't the only time I've heard the remark that the band went downhill on this tour although I think Ellington's writing was beginning to get extremely ambitious and I would love to have found out where he might have ended up.

It's easy to criticise Buddy Rich but when I first started to hear jazz in the last 70's / early 80's there was precious little of it around and it you wanted to hear a big band that didn't play Glenn Miller, Rich's and Herman's were perhaps the only two leaders fronting regular outfits. Even Gil Evans became a less frequent performer . I feel that Rich's music had a masculine, aggressive quality about it that doesn't always sit well with more recent bands that aren't quite so bullish and aggressive. He was almost certainly a pretty horrible person but I don't think many of the bandleaders particularly were that agreeable. I was quite amazed to read about Basie's early career in Kansas City where he was far more ruthless and less "domesticated" than his later incarnation. Together with Eddie Durham , Basie effectively ripped the Bennie Moten band apart so that the classic 1932 recordings have little connection with the more old-fashioned style of music that was performed a year earlier. Quite interesting to learn about the Reno Club too as it was far more disreputable than the more nostalgic image would suggest. Frank Drigg's book on jazz in the city is a recommended read for anyone wishing to get an idea on the emergence of swing and how the city then became an incubator for Charlie Parker and R n'B.

It's amazing to think just how much big band music in the 1970's still clung to it's swing era past despite the likes of Mike Gibbs, BoB and Thad Jones / Mel Lewis. Most of the famous swing era leaders were still fronting bands from time to time and the idiom was largely dominated by nostalgia. It never ceases to amaze me how this has transformed since I first discovered jazz so that the bands that are well-considered are the ones with a high jazz quotient like Basie, Ellington, Henderson, Kirk, Webb, Goodman, etc whereas the more commercial bands like the Dorseys, Harry James, Glenn Miller, don't seem to enjoy the reputations they seemed to have enjoyed at one point. Justice has been done, I think, with the passage of time.

[Tom Audustus]

yep chas it is!

compared to the Prom on BBC 4 last night on BBC4



... me i am not saying any thing ... not a word ....

Yep. Absolutely dreadful.

Typical of the non-jazzer's view of jazz !!!