Small's Jazz Club NewsLetter... Moanin'

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  • charles t
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 592

    Small's Jazz Club NewsLetter... Moanin'

    Dear Friends:

    So for the second time in two weeks a writer for a major national publication has attacked Jazz Music. This time in an article in the Washington Post titled “All That Jazz Isn’t All That Great”, writer Justin Moyer gives a point-by-point thesis about why Jazz Music isn’t that good or worth listening to. Here is a link to this sickening article --> http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/o...ll-that-great/

    But to highlight some of the points Mr. Moyer makes:



    He says that Jazz ruins songs by abandoning the lyrics and cites Charles Mingus and Eric Dolphy as an example of how to “ruin” a song.
    He calls Wes Montgomery a “serviceable, forgettable, uncontroversial player” whose music is suitable for “piping into elevators”.
    He calls Ornette Coleman’s “Shape Of Jazz To Come” an “uncoordinated mess”.
    He calls Jazz “…a genre loosely defined by little more than improvisation, sunglasses and berets”.
    He says that Jazz is “fetishized by the select few who actually listen to it”.


    So who is this wise-sage that can so definitively dismiss a 100 year old tradition of music and the genius minds that created it? He’s a schmuck who by his own admission “studied jazz while an undergraduate at Wesleyan University” and admits in the article that “like cirrus clouds or cotton candy, I found jazz generically pleasing, but insubstantial and hard to grasp.” Here is an example of this self hating mediocrity’s personal music (warning: this is hard to take) --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z__REL2n5Y

    Ok, so we know that idiots abound. The world is full of them. We know that there are many, many self-hating musical failures that need to lash out to justify their own complete inability to be either creative or find any kind of beauty in themselves. We also know that many people may not like Jazz – it’s not for everybody. But the issue here is that this jackass somehow has access to publish his rants in The Washington Post, a paper second only to the New York Times in significance and readership. What’s going on with these publications that they can let articles like this or last week’s Sonny Rollins “satire” in the New Yorker get published? Where are the people in charge? For me it’s more an indication of a disturbing trend towards anti-art and anti-intellectualism. It’s easy to attack something you don’t understand. But how can a major newspaper let someone with such few credentials write an article like this that is so poorly written, poorly researched and so just plain old mean. Who does it serve? How does this serve the community at large? Doesn’t it simply harm the music and the people that make it and ridicule those that appreciate it and need as part of their spiritual food? Can you imagine if an ass like this wrote a similar piece but say against Christianity? There would be a riot. But because Jazz is so marginalized and specialized it seems to be a target – an attack on the “elite” perhaps. But really, it’s an attack on thinking people. People who are not satisfied with the “pop” music being force-fed down our throats. It’s something to take note and something to be aware of. It’s something to be afraid of. When a major media outlet calls for the death of an art form it’s a dark day indeed.

    I urge anyone that’s so inclined to write Justin Moyer and let him know how you feel. His email is justin.moyer@washpost.com. You can also write a letter to editors of The Washington Post directly by emailing letters@washpost.com

    Meanwhile back at the front, Smalls Jazz Club is alive – vibrant, exciting, full of people of all races, colors, religions, and cultural backgrounds hanging out late at night and listening to JAZZ MUSIC – live music. Jazz is alive because you can’t kill a spirit and the spirit of this music lives today in the musicians who play it and in the hearts of those that seek it out. Jazz is beautiful and it is profound. It expresses joy, humor, religious reverence, sexuality and all things that are good about Humanity. It is not a joke. It is the legacy of the American culture – one of the truly pure and beautiful art forms brought to existence by the United States and the culture of the people. It’s music for thinking people and people who feel. Idiots are alienated by it but that is not the fault of the music. I thank everyone for the support of the club and this great art form. I hope to see you at Smalls.

    Spike (Wilner)

    " In 1994, Spike began to work a regular gig at Smalls Jazz Club. This became his permanent musical home and eventually led to his current position there as a partner and manager of the club. Spike now spends most of his time at Smalls and still plays there regularly with his group. "
  • Serial_Apologist
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 38184

    #2
    Unbelievable, Charles... but maybe...

    You will have seen by perusing this site that the BBC (of all institutions, one might once have said) is in the process of dumbing down its presentation of music and the arts in a kind of Talebanisation of ignorance, and has been for quite some time. One needn't be a conspiratorialist to see a bigger picture being involved here.

    Comment

    • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 4353

      #3
      "One of the most salient features of our
      culture is that there is so much
      bullshit." - Harry Frankfurt, Professor of Philosophy, Princeton,

      Great little book - "On Bullshit" - on those who actually know very little but because they "feel", command public attention and highly rewarded careers. Aka major columnists, policy wonks and journalists. Post modern girls in a post modern world.

      BN.

      Comment

      • Serial_Apologist
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 38184

        #4
        Originally posted by BLUESNIK'S REVOX View Post
        Post modern girls in a post modern world.

        BN.
        But first make sure to put a false address on the envelope and forget to stick on a postage stamp.

        Comment

        • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 4353

          #5
          They would say that all addresses are relative, there is no overarching map, and my location/narrative is as good as yours,, ,,better, once you've checked your privilege!

          The Emperor is not just naked, he's applauded for waving his @&?* in our faces.

          BN.

          Comment

          • aka Calum Da Jazbo
            Late member
            • Nov 2010
            • 9173

            #6
            i am with smalls! viva jazz!

            it is August and stories are slow and in any case i blame Braxton, he taught the dumb duck ... and in the land of the tea party any one with an IQ of 2 is gonna look good ...
            According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

            Comment

            • burning dog
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 1515

              #7
              The youtube music is just as I feared, white, middle class, middle aged, middle brow, webelliousness, nothing to do with pop or rock music either really, no doubt it's advocates consider it above Dance music or Motown. Similar to a lot of modern satire it seems to be saying that anything positive is crap. The kind of stuff most sneering pouting white "liberals" who suffer from arrested development like, basically it's "Look Mum, I'm shitting on the floor"

              It's not unexpected from a 17 year old, but grow up for Christ's sake!!!

              At least no one could ruin that song !

              I guess studying at Wesleyan University won't make you very funky unless it's after Fred W. rather than John.

              Comment

              • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 4353

                #8
                Frankfurt's point is that its not that these people are liars. At least that would recognise a truth. In fact they have no concept or use for truth, its about creating a narrative based on what they "feel". And it has real consequences. People who know nothing of say, Iran, become media experts on the back of searching Wiki or a scimming a few abstracts. Columnists left and right churn out daily pieces on everything from DNA to foreign policy without a clue on either. They just "feel". Blair invades Iraq because he "believes" it was the right thing to do. Evidence? Manufacture it, belief comes first and is all. The ultimate identity politics.. .its ALL about me.

                BN.

                Comment

                • burning dog
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 1515

                  #9
                  The problem I have with this guy is not that he dislikes jazz it's that he claims to have studied it, but uses ancient uninformed clichés like

                  Berets and Sunglasses,

                  - It's a discordant mess AND lift music, -

                  it ruins tunes by discarding the lyrics (???).... He doesn't strike me as someone entranced by the lyrics from 40's musicals.

                  Its all improv - the improv is fairly circumscribed in fact though , in all but European Free improv

                  Wes Montgomery is easy listening lift music, - Historicism... Like a modern Artist who said Cezanne was "chocolate boxy" EDIT klunky kitsch was the actual phrase. I've never quite got it why lift music, and cocktail piano for that matter, is considered so much worse than 90% of other music BTW

                  So he doesn't like jazz and he's at liberty to say what he doesn't like, but seems to present a QUASI objective argument against it. If he said " I don't like improvisation"," "I prefer non-classical music to be more straight forward", "I dislike the sound of the saxophone" they're subjective opinions, fine. As for "the fans" all genres has its fair share of Ass-hat followers and in my experience many Rock, as opposed to Pop fans are nowadays just as snobbish, if not moreso than jazz fans, and only go for jazz, hip hop or reggae or whatever that sounds "extreme" to them.


                  PS If it was just "SOME BLOKE" sounding off on a message board it wouldn't have mattered but this is paid article in an (allegedly) respected newspaper, all it amounts to is Bloke Down the Pub prejudice (Like my earlier post is perhaps). Disco is for Women and Gays I guess. Heavy Metal is for lank haired 40 year old acne sufferers living in their parents cellar.
                  Last edited by burning dog; 12-08-14, 06:12.

                  Comment

                  • Ian Thumwood
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 4361

                    #10
                    Although the article is rubbish and not really worthy of debate, there is a germ of truth in some of the comments. I do think that jazz is it's own worst enemy and there are elements where I think some stuff which is uneven can be unrealistically lauded. I think the prime example is someone like Sun Ra - I don't dislike his music but it is nowhere near as great as some would envisage . I would also share Calum's perception of Anthony Braxton - worthy in it's intent, the music just doesn't hang together for me.

                    As far as jazz being over-rated and boring, I think this is often true. The comment about Wes Montgomery is true to a degree, especially if you take his work on Verve as an example. Something like "Dinner Jazz" on Jazz FM also seems to present jazz as pretty safe an anodyne even if the selection of tracks totally skewers the music in to resembling something it isn't. Not all jazz is great and the jazz that is finds itself frequently distilled down to Miles. Coltrane / Mingus / Duke, etc which does the music a real disservice. Also worth noting that one of the strengths of jazz is that the rarely trod pathways o the music often produce some of the most convincing music, whether we are talking about Andy Kirk, Herbie Nichols, Elmo Hope, Richard twardzik, Kenny Dorham, etc, etc. That said, this can manifest itself in to "train spotter" territory amongst fans who will champion their own particular favourite as well as comment on an iconic album sleeve such as Bluensik's comment regarding Ornette last week. Whilst everyone posting here probably falls in to the same trap, you can see why this aspect of the music (esoteric, nerdy, anal, etc, etc) can be seen to be off-putting to some. The same is also the case with rock fans as BD pointed out.

                    I don't think jazz is washed up. The music is happening to a far greater degree now and on so many levels as much as at any time in it's past and if jazz has passed it's sell-by date, where does that leave rock, rap or classical music ?

                    Comment

                    • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 4353

                      #11
                      Ian, I commentated on Ornette's Atlantic as iconic (a word now so debased) because it is, sleeve and all. If it rains tomorrow I may say its raining.

                      BN.

                      Comment

                      • Ian Thumwood
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 4361

                        #12
                        Bluesnik

                        The point I was trying to raise was that jazz is extremely esoteric and sometimes is extremely subjective as opposed to being objective. Jazz fans are as obsessive about the covers of some LP's as the music contained within. You only have to consider some of the sleeves which have been satirised by Most Other People Do The Killing which includes a pastiche of your favourite record cover for their record "This is our moosic."

                        The most alarming thing about the initial thread is the alleged essay by Sonny Rollins purporting to dismiss jazz entirely. Rollins has reacted furiously to this. I'm surprised that this didn't generate more fury on this board.

                        Comment

                        • aka Calum Da Jazbo
                          Late member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 9173

                          #13
                          did not see it and don't really feel too strongly about this - the thought i have about esoteric nerdiness and recoord covers &c is that we all started collecting lps in our early and mid teens when these collecting/train spotting tendencies are at their worst amongst boys ...

                          Bluesnik is where i am at; that album including its cover is iconioc ... when i was a troubled teen not a nerdy pubescent that cover and others like it were sharp it said there was something new in the world that had never existed before, that it looked and sounded good in the most exciting and heretofore unimaginable way ... and that i wanted to be that; look like it, speak like it, play like it, listen to it and others like it and that every thing else now had to be re-assessed [this is my underfunding of iconic] ... it was a shit good lp and still is ....

                          the dumb duck writing about jazz can not have experienced such a thing


                          haggis and neeps & tatties are esoteric - what has happened to give this word a magic power of taboo or denigration; Southampton Football Club is esoteric innit .... [Fulham certainly are ]

                          listening to show tunes sung on the beat with exquisite pitch and shrill emotion in a bow tie is esoteric and nerdy in the extreme .... i have always had suspicions about the personal hygiene of that type of geek ....

                          some of the music for some of the time for some of us .... but not all of it for all of us for all time eh .... art is sectarian not elitist
                          According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

                          Comment

                          • Ian Thumwood
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 4361

                            #14
                            Calum

                            I agree that the article is probably not worth discussing but was intrigued by some of the references to quite serious musicians which were swiftly dismissed as well as the comment about standards being ruined by jazz musicians. The latter seemed a particularly strange comment as I think jazz musicians actually breathed new life in to these songs.

                            The whole issue of standards has now become quite divisive. The market seems saturated with albums of musicians playing the Broadway songbook since the idiom became fashionable during the 1950's. Prior to this, I've always felt that standards had an intermittent appearance in jazz, cropping up from time to time in versions by the likes of Louis Armstrong or in the repertoire of big bands but often in a commercial / sweet arrangement. The whole notion of there being a Broadway songbook probably took hold in the recordings Billie Holiday made in the 1930's as well as solos piano offerings by the likes of Teddy Wilson and Art Tatum. By the 1950's the idea of playing standards was so deeply ingrained that whole shows ended up being covered by jazz musicians. You also have the medleys from the JATP concerts which incorporated a string of standards.

                            The strange thing with these standards is that the are enhanced by being given a jazz treatment and just how few of these songs have actually endured. There are hundreds which fell by the wayside and whilst a good proportion of this material was often inferior (just listen to some of the unforgiveable sh/t that bands like Goodman, Dorsey, Miller and Shaw issued to feature such woeful singers as Helen Forrest or Helen Ward) to get an appreciation of just how much a jazz treatment of a tune has improved it.

                            This prompts me to make another comment. In looking up some Memphis Minnie on Youtube I was fascinated to discover a popular singer called Annette Henshaw who I had never heard of before even though her backing bands included the likes of Eddie Lang, the Dorsey brothers, Max Kaminsky and Benny Goodman. Staggeringly, a large proportion of her recordings were subsequently recorded by Billie Holiday in her sessions with Teddy Wilson. the singing is dated but the bands are quite good. Fascinating to hear these songs as intended and then to read the article again suggesting that they were better left alone. This track has an excellent band behind here though...




                            It does recall the notorious thread all those years ago when Trevor Cooper continued to slaughter Bing Crosby when it was suggested that he had anything to do with jazz. I didn't often agree with him but he was probably right in this instance. That said, here is another popular singer from the same era and this is definitely jazz in my opinion. Prior to last night, I'd never heard of her before but she was very popular in the 20's / 30's - just shows you the risk of thinking that all popular music in this era was jazz.

                            Comment

                            • charles t
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 592

                              #15
                              Ian: Isn't this Cubism-style cover for Ted Gioia's - The Jazz Standards -A Guide To The Repertoire...
                              the gREatESt?

                              Comment

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