Charlie Christian

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  • Ian Thumwood
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4223

    Charlie Christian

    I've spent much of this week listening to my Dad's 2 CD compilation of the work of guitarist Charlie Christian whilst driving up and down the A34. This collection includes a number of the famous recordings with Benny Goodman as well as some air checks which I'd never heard before. For me, Charlie Christian has always been one of the most magical names in jazz and this was , in part, instilled in me by my Dad who revers the guitarist. The Goodman tracks are incredible and there are other recordings by the likes of Meade Lux Lewis with Edmund Hall and the legendary Minton recordings which only serve to enhance his status. Harmonically, Christian was probably the most ambitious jazz musician around at the time who wasn't playing piano. It would have been fascinating to have heard what he might have produced had be not succumbed to TB. I think everyone recognises that he would have been one of the most important players in the be- bop movement yet I wonder whether an electric guitarist of his prowess would have also impacted upon rock in the 1950's and whether rock and roll might have sounded different in comparison.

    The attack of his electric guitar seems extremely modern and does seem like the precursor to Charlie Parker from a rhythmic point of view. What I have found incredible is the three different versions of Goodman's sextet / septet. The first group with Lionel Hampton seems routed in the 1930's whereas the other two groups definitely are more progressive. This is also reflected in the orchestra track "Solo flight" where Goodman's orchestra is in superb form. That said, the energy of the septet with Cootie Williams and Georgie Auld is quite staggering and there are moments on some of the tracks like "Breakfast feud" where I would argue that the drive of this small group was probably unequalled until some of Mingus' groups nearly 17 years later. I didn't really appreciate how this group function either because they are playing charts where some of the writing such as "Air mail special" is quite frightening. These are remarkable achievements for any era of jazz and whilst a lot of purple prose has been deservedly written about Christian's guitar solos, no one ever seems to comment on his ability as a rhythm player - even more driven than Freddie Greene in my opinion. There are moments when these recordings almost become airborne when the piano / bass / guitar and drums get going. Auld sounds better than I recalled whereas Cootie Williams produces some really pithy, free-booting solos that play around with the groove in such a manner that you might have thought Goodman poached him from Basie's band and not Ellington's. I would also have to add that Benny Goodman's clarinet is sensational. There has been comments about the Shaw v Goodman merits before on this site and whilst I would consider myself a Shaw fan, I think with the passage of time it is clear than Goodman is by far the more convincing jazz soloist. Goodman fronted the small group and big band equivalent of a top four premiership football team whereas Shaw seems increasingly like a club who is running away with the leadership of the Championship yet never had a star striker like Christian who had the vision to foresee where the music is going. Checking out the Edmund Hall tracks, it's pretty clear that he saw the Goodman route as the bona fide approach for jazz clarinet. Goodman might not have strictly been the "king of swing" yet around 1940-1, I think it can be safely argued that he was at the vanguard of where jazz was heading both in respect of the small groups with Charlie Christian and the under-appreciated big band of the early 1940's which was his finest.
  • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 4314

    #2
    " yet I wonder whether an
    electric guitarist of his prowess would have
    also impacted upon rock in the 1950's and
    whether rock and roll might have sounded
    different in comparison."

    Well T.Bone Walker grew up with him and played local duos with him...he said Christian shoved a mike between his legs for amplification. BB King a big admirer and on and on. Not rock true but....Although Franny Beecher (sp) Bill Halley's guitarist took shed loads from him (and was also ex Goodman). And the Les Paul connection....

    50s rock guitarists...white at least...seemed to take far more from the Country tradition, from Chet Atkins and James Burton and indeed Duane Eddy. (btw...I was once on a train when Duane Eddy tried to get off/cop with one of the Shirelles.....It'll be in my new book)

    BN.
    Last edited by BLUESNIK'S REVOX; 02-08-14, 21:36.

    Comment

    • Ian Thumwood
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 4223

      #3
      Bluesnik

      Granted there were other guitarists exploring amplification in the 30's yet none of these could play the kind of improvised lines Christian was playing. I grew up with this music but listening to it again this week I had forgotten just how ahead of his time he was as a soloist. Agreed about there being a country tradition and whilst the likes of T-bone walker could certainly play, (listened to his music on another of my Dad's CDs shortly after Christmas) he wasn't in the same league.

      There is a lot of blues phrases in Christian's approach yet no one in the world of blues would have launched in to solos in the manner that Christian begins his solos with Goodman. If you listen to Eddie Durham, his technical solution to amplify the guitar is more interesting than the solos which lack Christian's ease of phrasing or ability to push the harmony.

      It's gutting that Christian never made any recordings with Alphonso Trent's brilliant big band but the music he did record is uniformly exceptional. There aren't many examples where Christian isn't playing anything that is less than remarkable.

      As for Goodman, it does seem increasingly perverse that Shaw's reputation had been on the ascendency at the expense of Goodman but the feeling is that Goodman's recordings are often too well executed and combined with his popularity that Shaw seems far more fashionable. My piano teacher used to say that Goodman often just went around the block as a soloist. Listening to the sextet/ septet I totally disagree. I think that Goodman was probably the best white reed player around in the 1930's and a far more convincing jazz soloist than Shaw. The septet recordings are the apogee of small group swing and the complicated riffs in the arrangements of tunes like "Air mail special" are a fore-runner of the more complex be-bop lines that Parker would develop. If jazz had stopped in 1941, the Goodman recordings with Christian would have been amongst the most adventurous. They are far more musical and swinging than the Gramercy Five recordings and maybe only rivalled by John Kirby for sophistication. That said, I much prefer Goodman's group to Kirby's.

      Seeing that Christian was 25 when he died in 1941, he would have reached musical maturity around the time that Bird died and the formation of Miles' first, classic quintet. It's fascinating to think where he would have been musically even if I would imagine he would have been a mainstay of Norman Granz's shows.

      Like the classic Basie recordings of the 30's / 40's, these tracks by Goodman / Christian truly serve to define swing as a genuine innovative and forward looking style of jazz. Both groups nailed exactly how to swing and wiped away the more antiquated styles of rhythm that was the norm in the 1930's. I'd call these recordings "Desert Island Discs" as much as anything by Ellington in 1940/1, Miles' second quintet or any of the classic Blue Notes from the 1950's/ 60's. the Goodman sextet / septet still sounds modern today with Christian's guitar reaching out to today's descendants like Mary Halvorson played on JRR today.

      Comment

      • Hornspieler
        Late Member
        • Sep 2012
        • 1847

        #4
        I inherited my late brother in law's collection of Jazz/Swing, which included Kirby, Shaw, Dorseys, Woody, Barnet,Armstrong, Hampton and many others of that era, but my particular treasure is of everything Goodman: (172 tracks) ranging from Trio, 4tet, 5tet, 6tet and Big Band and probably everything he recorded between 1936 and 1947.

        So I suppose I also have most of Charlie's work there - including where Charlie, waiting for Goodman's arrival for a session invited his fellow musicians "Okay guys. Let's play "The Blues" in B natural"!

        He was, I suppose, the innovator of promoting the guitar from just being an improvement on the banjo in the rythm section to a solo jazz instrument in its own right.

        Any fan wishing for more details about Charlie's output is welcome to PM me with their queries.

        Hornspieler

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        • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 4314

          #5
          Ian, apples and pears. I would suggest that 50s rock had no use for Christian's technical and harmonic sophisication. It was all about effect. Ck/out say James Burton's riff and solo (at age 15) on Dale Hawkin's Susie Q. It's as primitive as hell but it works in THAT context. Same with Link Wray on Rumble. When you do get a player with chops, say Kenny Burrell on some of the Alan Freed tracks, it lacks that rawness. = Crudity.

          In my yoof once you could play the intro to Move It you were a playground guitar hero! Play an E chord or Peter Gunn bass line and impress the ladies. Worked for me. What was it Don Mclean said to Pat Martino...."dont play any of those chords with numbers!'

          BN.
          Last edited by BLUESNIK'S REVOX; 03-08-14, 11:11.

          Comment

          • aka Calum Da Jazbo
            Late member
            • Nov 2010
            • 9173

            #6
            yes Charlie had a distinctive 'voice' and attack in single line improvisation .... and another was Lonnie Johnson

            According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

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            • aka Calum Da Jazbo
              Late member
              • Nov 2010
              • 9173

              #7
              i had a version of this on a cheapo label; never off the record player



              you can hear him on an extended basis swinging like the furies .... must have been eye popping and irresistible live ...
              According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

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              • BLUESNIK'S REVOX
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 4314

                #8
                Lonnie Johnson had that wonderful kind of mellow singing tone which I used to think was maybe a function of the compression on the early records until I saw and heard him live in the 60s. Even on an electric bill with Buddy Guy and Herbert Sumlin etc. he stood out. Lovely guitarist.

                BN.

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                • Ian Thumwood
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 4223

                  #9
                  Lonnie Johnson is a musician who I've always felt was out of his time. The track with Armstrong is one of my favourite Louis tracks yet the guitar dup with Eddie Lang produced a wealth of material which pointed ahead in to the 1930's the way that Christian looked forwards the late 1940's. I've not heard a lot of Johnson's later work but I saw Buddy Guy this tear and was hugely impressed. I didn't realise , until he made an announcement, that he didn't read music.

                  Comment

                  • Serial_Apologist
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 37814

                    #10
                    I don't know who the lead guitarist in Bill Haley's Comets was, but I have to thank him, because that slightly boppy solo 3 choruses into "Rock Around the Clock" was the first thing I heard that fixed the idea of improvising over a chord sequence in my mind at the age of 11, being the one thing I found interesting on that 10" 78.

                    Al Casey could be another electric guitar pioneer anticipative of 1950s blues twangers on "Esquire Blues", on my Fontana Commodore Jazz Classics 52nd Street album I picked up many years ago. He's in a fantastic line-up of Coleman Hawkins, Cootie Williams, Edmond Hall, Art Tatum, Oscar Pettiford and Sid Catlett, so late Swing-to-Bop kinda transitional, no date but quality and sounds 1940ish.

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                    • Ian Thumwood
                      Full Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 4223

                      #11
                      "Esquire Blues"



                      I love this kind of jazz and could listen to it continually. The Barney Bigard solo is incredible.

                      At one point Goodman had both Christian and Sid Catlett in the rhythm section of his big band but they proved to be so impressive when the band went out on tour that Catlett was allegedly fired by Goodman because he took away the attention from the clarinettist.

                      There were plenty of guitarists for followed in Christians wake in the early forties such s Tiny Grimes, Al Casey and T-Bone Walker but I don't think any of them were in the same league. Both John Hammond and George T Simon (a promoter and critic of the swing era respectively) are alleged to have regarded Christian as the greatest improvising talent to have emerged from the Swing Era. Given that the likes of Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young, Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker all cut their teeth with big bands and played a significant role in developing swing, this is a brave statement. I would have to say that it would have been interesting to have seen which Charlie would have been more influential, Christian or Parker, had the guitarist lived. To me, they were both heading in the same direction albeit Christian probably had the edge of Parker as an improviser in 1941.

                      Comment

                      • Hornspieler
                        Late Member
                        • Sep 2012
                        • 1847

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Ian Thumwood View Post
                        "Esquire Blues"



                        I love this kind of jazz and could listen to it continually. The Barney Bigard solo is incredible.

                        At one point Goodman had both Christian and Sid Catlett in the rhythm section of his big band but they proved to be so impressive when the band went out on tour that Catlett was allegedly fired by Goodman because he took away the attention from the clarinettist.
                        That may be the reason, but if you listen closely to that great Goodman number "The Earl" (presumably named after Earl Hines) you will notice that the drum kit is absent from the recording, because "Big Syd" Catlett failed to turn up for the session and they decided to record without him.

                        * On the flip side of "Clarinet a la King" (Parlophone R2843)

                        HS

                        Comment

                        • Hornspieler
                          Late Member
                          • Sep 2012
                          • 1847

                          #13
                          I have a spreadsheet listing all the Jazz/Swing record collection inherited from my late Brother-in-Law.
                          78s, LPs covering up to later Jazz, but stopping short of Miles Davis and company.
                          The serial numbers of all those record labels is included on the spreadsheet.

                          If anyone is interested in having a copy of that listing, please PM me and I will email the document to you.

                          Needless to say, I have everything copied onto on CDs and stored on Hard drive.

                          HS

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                          • Ian Thumwood
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 4223

                            #14
                            Hornspeiler

                            This is another version of "The Earl" performed by Earl Hines own prchestra that was made around the same time. The arrangement is the same from recollection (Jimmy Mundy ? ) but the solo parts are all taken by Earl Hines.

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