Jazz in Papers/Reviews III

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

is an album of pop covers by Frisell worth the angst?

hits points of interest that are relevant to some recent discussions around here

[Serial_Apologist]

is an album of pop covers by Frisell worth the angst?

hits points of interest that are relevant to some recent discussions around here

I dare say I'm probably the only one on this board who considers Bill Frisell overrated. Good as far as the effects he part-pioneeered in the early '80s are concerned, but for me his inventive paucity is revealed whenever he eschews them for the conventional approach.

I once told John Etheridge, queuing in front of me for a sesh by The Power Trio at Outside-In, that I thought his playing far far superior to Frisell's. "Frizzle!", he wryly repeated without confirming my view.

[Ian Thumwood]

I dare say I'm probably the only one on this board who considers Bill Frisell overrated. Good as far as the effects he part-pioneeered in the early '80s are concerned, but for me his inventive paucity is revealed whenever he eschews them for the conventional approach.

At one point I was snapping up every Frisell album that he was releasing but my interest dwindled after "Blues Dream." There are some brilliant albums that he has made under his own name. "Is that you" is probably one of the defining records of the 1980's whereas "Quartet" remains one of the finest records from the next decade. " Ghost town" isn't far behind and would be the starting point for a "non-believer like SA. This is typical Frisell, simplistic , folk-like tunes, discrete use of effects and over-dubbing, distortion and the ability to under-pin the harmonies with the "wrong" notes . He was probably the most radical of the likes of Scofield, Abercrombie and Metheny to emerge in the 1980's but is probably more guilty of so indifferent albums under his own name. Some are bizarre like "unspeakable" but even the derided "Nashville" transpires to be a really good record. Other albums disappoint. I've rarely listened to the "Intercontinental" which is very poor and the album with Dave Holland and Elvin Jones is lacklustre.

If you want a good example of how vital he is a musician under his own name (setting aside his exceptional performances with Paul Motian's trio - probably the most versatile jazz group in the last 30 years) check out the "Jazz sessions" solo DVD which can be snapped up on line for peanuts. This is startling good and fascinating as you can appreciate how the music is created. I loaned the DVD to my parents and even my Mum was fascinated by what was going on. (She usually prefers Chopin!)

Wondered if anyone else had bought any of these DVD's? I've acquired a few of them over the years. The Frisell one is the pick of the bunch although it only narrowly edges the Charlie Hunter set which is brilliant. I was a little disappointed by the subdued Andrew Hill disc and the James "Blood " Ulmer DVD is a let down - not as raucous and colourful as I had imagined. Still got the Abercrombie / Osby duo DVD to watch.

[Old Grumpy]

We once went to a concert by Bill Frisell and another guitarist (can't remember who). The first set consisted of them playing to each other and not the audience. We did not stay to hear the second set.

OG

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

http://www.theguardian.com/music/jazz is interesting this week ... including Adrian Chiles provoking our own Ian T

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

http://www.theguardian.com/music/jazz is interesting this week ... including Adrian Chiles provoking our own Ian T

Well knock me down with a R5licker sticker. I would never have had Chiles aka Dumbo down as a Bill and Mose-ite.

BN.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

.... and er speaking of microtonal bass playing [guilty as charged m'lud]

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

the Graun has dropped Jazz from the directory of culture on its website ... is this the end?

[Tenor Freak]

I dare say I'm probably the only one on this board who considers Bill Frisell overrated. Good as far as the effects he part-pioneeered in the early '80s are concerned, but for me his inventive paucity is revealed whenever he eschews them for the conventional approach.

No, I do as well - always preferred Frisell as a sideman than as a leader.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

No, I do as well - always preferred Frisell as a sideman than as a leader.

Bill = The Hank Marvin of jazz.

Jet Harris = The Charlie Haden of Cliff Beat.

BN. Bongo Rocker,

[Serial_Apologist]

Bill = The Hank Marvin of jazz.

Jet Harris = The Charlie Haden of Cliff Beat

In Cream, Eric Clapton was Ornette, according to Jack Bruce, but they forgot to tell him.

I've often wondered if he really meant what he said, though.

Nod Knowles, who ran SW Jazz in the late 1980s, and broadcasted once or twice on R3, always thought Stuart Hall covered the twangy Hank Marvin end of things rather well in Arguelles, a band led by Steve's bro' Julian that had Kim Burton on accordion, Mick Hutton on bass, and Steve a la batterie. I wonder if anyone else remembers this group - it got quite prominent coverage in The Wire mag. How deliberately Arguelles was founded on The Shadows sound wasn't obvious; although it had a tendency towards tweeness the idiom did tend toward the Chosen One's backing group - interesting given that I can't think of others comprising a C&W-tinged light music lineage, except possibly the early Gary Burton Group with Bob Moses, Larry Coryell and Steve Swallow on acoustic that played one or two Mike Gibbs tunes before we'd heard them over here.

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

I always thought that Keith Jarrett wandered into Floyd Cramer turf on some of his early dates. So corny you could make a breakfast with it. And at other times he morphed into Elton John.

BN

[Ian Thumwood]

I always thought that Keith Jarrett wandered into Floyd Cramer turf on some of his early dates. So corny you could make a breakfast with it. And at other times he morphed into Elton John.

BN

You have made that statement before when Jazz Line Up played a sample from a Keith Jarrett disc which made me think exactly the same. Jarrett is a bit of a marmite character but he can be extremely inspired as well as monotonous. I would never have considered his music to be banal although wearing his heart on his sleeve so often does expose those elements where he isn't in the zone. There is a solo record called "Dark Intervals" which I loved to begin with yet grew to find it an increasingly difficult listen as it morphed in to classical music territory.

As for Frisell being over-rated, I would concede that his stuff under his own name came be under-whelming whilst he is always worth an additional star when he appears under another leader's banner. Some of his own projects veer too far from jazz yet albums like "Ghost Town" or "Quartet" are exceptional by any standards. The electric guitar in jazz seems to be probably the most consistently inventive instrument in jazz since the 1970's when the electric guitar seemed to emerge from the less-than-impressive reputation prior to this period. I love musicians like Charlie Christian, Kenny Burrell, Jim Hall, some Wes Montgomery and Grant Green yet the likes of Tal Farlow, Herb Ellis, Johnny Smith, Barney Kessel, Larry Coryell and , to an extent, George Benson, leave me cold. Not a fan of John McLaughlin either. Kessell and Ellis's "Great guitars" group is symptomatic to me of just how ordinary jazz could be in the 1970's and still be lauded by the fans. No wonder some people said jazz was dead ! Between the brilliance of Charlie Christian ( a great improviser by anyone's standards) and the 1970's, the electric guitar can seem a hit and miss instrument for credible jazz with Montgomery being unique in having a lasting influence.

It was thanks to musicians like Bill Frisell that the guitar was salvaged as a credible jazz instrument. Put the likes of Frisell, Scofield and Abercrombie in to this context and it is not hard to appreciate why most fans of contemporary jazz hold them all in esteem - especially Frisell. I don't think that Frisell's genius stems from employing technology either as his sense of harmony is fascinating - check out the "Solo" DVD that is still available on Amazon which pretty much demonstrates his creativity.

For my money, he is amongst the ten most significant jazz musicians to emerge from the 1980's and probably best heard with Paul Motian's trio. In the same decade you also saw the likes of Metheny, Scofield and Abercrombie come in to their own as well so that the electric guitar now seems a truly valid jazz instrument with a roster of practitioners as varied as Coleman Hawkins, lester Young, Coltrane, Rollins and Shorter. It is interesting how the next generation of jazz guitarists have coped so that you can hear elements of Frisell, Scofield, etc in players like John Parracelli and Ben Monder. There seems to be an issue with deciding how the music will advance from the likes of Frisell as musicians as diverse as Kevin Eubanks, Russell Malone, "Blood" Ulmer, Marc Ducret, Wayne Krantz, Philip Catherine, Wolfgang Muthspeil, or Lage Lund have not really been anywhere as near as influential despite being incredible musicians. I've enjoyed work by all of these guitarists. There seem to be 100's of fabulous jazz guitarists around nowadays whereas this wasn't the case in the 50's and 60's. It is almost like the situation with tenor players in Modern Jazz where a label like Blue Note could muster some amazing talent. However, there is almost a vacuum nowadays with a new approach being required. Two names are worth checking out in my opinion. Jeff Parker is almost a jazz "anti-hero" and re-shaping the music with a style which eschews peaks and troughs rather like someone such as Lee Knoitz whereas Mary Halvorson seems like a mash up of Catherine and Derek Bailey and probably no everyone's cup of tea. I wasn't too impressed by her to begin with yet her "imaginary sea" album led me on a Damascus like road to conversion. She has an interesting approach which is almost "Anti-Frisell" yet I can't see Bluesnik catching on to her music either!

[BLUESNIK'S REVOX]

You have made that statement before when Jazz Line Up played a sample from a Keith Jarrett disc which made me think exactly the same. Jarrett is a bit of a marmite character but he can be extremely inspired as well as monotonous. I would never have considered his music to be banal although wearing his heart on his sleeve so often does expose those elements where he isn't in the zone. There is a solo record called "Dark Intervals" which I loved to begin with yet grew to find it an increasingly difficult listen as it morphed in to classical music territory.

As for Frisell being over-rated, I would concede that his stuff under his own name came be under-whelming whilst he is always worth an additional star when he appears under another leader's banner. Some of his own projects veer too far from jazz yet albums like "Ghost Town" or "Quartet" are exceptional by any standards. The electric guitar in jazz seems to be probably the most consistently inventive instrument in jazz since the 1970's when the electric guitar seemed to emerge from the less-than-impressive reputation prior to this period. I love musicians like Charlie Christian, Kenny Burrell, Jim Hall, some Wes Montgomery and Grant Green yet the likes of Tal Farlow, Herb Ellis, Johnny Smith, Barney Kessel, Larry Coryell and , to an extent, George Benson, leave me cold. Not a fan of John McLaughlin either. Kessell and Ellis's "Great guitars" group is symptomatic to me of just how ordinary jazz could be in the 1970's and still be lauded by the fans. No wonder some people said jazz was dead ! Between the brilliance of Charlie Christian ( a great improviser by anyone's standards) and the 1970's, the electric guitar can seem a hit and miss instrument for credible jazz with Montgomery being unique in having a lasting influence.

It was thanks to musicians like Bill Frisell that the guitar was salvaged as a credible jazz instrument. Put the likes of Frisell, Scofield and Abercrombie in to this context and it is not hard to appreciate why most fans of contemporary jazz hold them all in esteem - especially Frisell. I don't think that Frisell's genius stems from employing technology either as his sense of harmony is fascinating - check out the "Solo" DVD that is still available on Amazon which pretty much demonstrates his creativity.

For my money, he is amongst the ten most significant jazz musicians to emerge from the 1980's and probably best heard with Paul Motian's trio. In the same decade you also saw the likes of Metheny, Scofield and Abercrombie come in to their own as well so that the electric guitar now seems a truly valid jazz instrument with a roster of practitioners as varied as Coleman Hawkins, lester Young, Coltrane, Rollins and Shorter. It is interesting how the next generation of jazz guitarists have coped so that you can hear elements of Frisell, Scofield, etc in players like John Parracelli and Ben Monder. There seems to be an issue with deciding how the music will advance from the likes of Frisell as musicians as diverse as Kevin Eubanks, Russell Malone, "Blood" Ulmer, Marc Ducret, Wayne Krantz, Philip Catherine, Wolfgang Muthspeil, or Lage Lund have not really been anywhere as near as influential despite being incredible musicians. I've enjoyed work by all of these guitarists. There seem to be 100's of fabulous jazz guitarists around nowadays whereas this wasn't the case in the 50's and 60's. It is almost like the situation with tenor players in Modern Jazz where a label like Blue Note could muster some amazing talent. However, there is almost a vacuum nowadays with a new approach being required. Two names are worth checking out in my opinion. Jeff Parker is almost a jazz "anti-hero" and re-shaping the music with a style which eschews peaks and troughs rather like someone such as Lee Knoitz whereas Mary Halvorson seems like a mash up of Catherine and Derek Bailey and probably no everyone's cup of tea. I wasn't too impressed by her to begin with yet her "imaginary sea" album led me on a Damascus like road to conversion. She has an interesting approach which is almost "Anti-Frisell" yet I can't see Bluesnik catching on to her music either!

Well, I am always up for a challenge!

Jazz guitar is difficult to get right, it can be so bland, but I am amazed at how awful/crass Herb Ellis could be. A friend sent me a rare tape of the Peterson trio in Canada, Ellis channeling Bill Halley, that near.

BN.