Temporary title

[Arcades Project]

'

[Simon]

But if you'd explain what can possibly be considered "stirring" by my earlier post, I'd be grateful. Then I wouldn't do it again.

All of it.

OK. <sigh> Let me rephrase, in the hopes of a reasoned reply.

If you'd explain how (all or even some of) my earlier post can be considered "stirring" I'd be grateful.

For clarity's sake I quote it below.

"I'm with the majority on this one, as regards the basic principle. If people for whatever reason don't rate a particular piece of music, it's their affair. There seems no good reason to me for anybody else to bother overmuch, save perhaps for a gentle nudge towards a suggestion of a good listening experience or two.

We may indeed feel sad about the fact that the immense pleasure that can be gained from Bach, or Mozart, or some of the other true greats, is denied another human being, but there's probably not much that can realistically be done to change that."

[Richard Barrett]

Emperor's New Clothes was perfectly apt. A great deal of noise masquerading as music . (...)
Only two classes of person I suggest would appreciate it - either those pretending to do so despite finding it impenetrable noise because it is thought to be the right thing to do or those whose musical knowledge and understanding might enable them to see the art or technical ability behind the noise.

Wrong. Class (a) does not exist, and I am willing to bet that you have no evidence whatsoever that it does; class (b) consists mostly of people whose "musical knowledge" when it comes to Lachenmann is no more extensive or arcane than the "musical knowledge" of Mozart possessed by most people who listen to Mozart. Listeners find out more about music because they like the sound of it, not the other way around.

[french frank]

I wonder whether there aren't some lines of argument which aren't better left to remain uncommented upon: they have an eloquent (often unintended) subtext which is, in itself, sufficient comment.

[Hornspieler]

I wonder whether there aren't some lines of argument which aren't better left to remain uncommented upon: they have an eloquent (often unintended) subtext which is, in itself, sufficient comment.

Well spoken FF.

The key word here is ARGUMENT Why can't people agree that they have different tastes and opinions?

HS

[Arcades Project]

/

[french frank]

Well spoken FF.

The key word here is ARGUMENT Why can't people agree that they have different tastes and opinions?

HS

I tend to reserve 'argument' for a reasoned, reasonable exposition of a case (with footnotes where applicable). Argumentation. Otherwise, it's a squabble, quarrel or bickering...

[Barbirollians]

People on this forum are easy to tease .

Richard Barrett may well be right there is a third class of musical masochists who like listening to terrible noise - indeed fans of thrash metal would fall into that category .

I remain highly unconvinced that all of those who profess to like much contemporary classical music actually do so - and I believe that many do state they do for fear of being labelled a conservative or Luddite or given some other such epithet by those such as Harry and Ron but it seems that we will never persuade each other to the contrary and I am content to leave those who wish to have their ears assaulted by such music to "enjoy" it .

[teamsaint]

Barbi, I think the answer to your point must be that it is a mistake to consider that our taste is fixed or closed. Openness to possibility, rather than unquestioning acceptance, is surely a positive way forward?

RE Thrash metal,lots of folk do indeed like its'terrible noise'.
Some, like Machine Head,is much more popular tban others. Curious.

[french frank]

I made it clear that where people hold what is the perceived 'minority' view on controversial subjects, they should be sensitive to the fact that they ARE in a minority and not repeat those views in order to annoy.

Serious discussion of contemporary music can be held on the Hear & Now board and anyone attempting to disrupt will be excluded. That is not a sop to the enthusiasts, but a disciplinary act. Contemporary music is an important part of Radio 3's remit and FoR3 supports that. I shall transfer some of these posts to a separate thread to allow the original topic to be pursued.

[Richard Barrett]

I remain highly unconvinced that all of those who profess to like much contemporary classical music actually do so

Again I wonder whether you have the slightest shred of evidence for this.

[Beef Oven]

I made it clear that where people hold what is the perceived 'minority' view on controversial subjects, they should be sensitive to the fact that they ARE in a minority and not repeat those views in order to annoy.

Serious discussion of contemporary music can be held on the Hear & Now board and anyone attempting to disrupt will be excluded. That is not a sop to the enthusiasts, but a disciplinary act. Contemporary music is an important part of Radio 3's remit and FoR3 supports that. I shall transfer some of these posts to a separate thread to allow the original topic to be pursued.

I fundamentally disagree with Barbirollians, but his position has thrown up very interesting responses which are very enjoyable and informative to read.

I do not think he's trying to annoy, he is genuinely baffled as to why many of us like the type of music that we do.

I think it's a shame that the thread had to be hived off, and I think it's dangerous to treat a stubborn minority in this way.

[french frank]

I think it's a shame that the thread had to be hived off, and I think it's dangerous to treat a stubborn minority in this way.

It's hived off because it was off-topic. The posts are still here - and that doesn't please everyone either.

The original topic does at least have a chance to be continued and the views here can still be discussed.

[Beef Oven]

I agree with that point. If anything is a blot on the forum it's the inability to be able to carry out serious discussion about the things we feel strongly about without people becoming irritating (or confrontational).

This thread is the 'Mozart sceptic' thread.

Maybe, but you might want to think about how easily people get irritated and then move so easily into crazed mode.

[greenilex]

I'm deeply puzzled by all this. Surely if one doesn't enjoy something it's easy to turn it off?

I'd put in a Picasso dove if I knew how...