Cameron: "Let's export gay marriage!"

[amateur51]

Scotland passing it's Bill?

Triffic idea, Flossie

[ahinton]

I don't think we need to rehearse any more; we're word perfect & can probably even recite each others' lines

But, even if true, that in and of itself doesn't actually oblige us to do so, does it (please God!)?...

[scottycelt]

I don't think that answered the question about Darby and Derek. If you consider me one of 'the same set of characters', I'm surprised: I hardly every express an opinion on the subject - merely a sigh each time it's revisited.

I agree you don't get involved too much in such debates (wisely) but (not for the first time) you did express an opinion on the matter which has contributed to the debate.

Not sure I get your point about Darby and Derek. As I firmly believe that marriage is for heterosexuals only I'm not likely to agree with you, am I?

That is not to say I wouldn't wish Darby and Derek all the companionship and happiness in the world and they can easily commit officially to each other by way of a Civil Partnership from which heterosexuals are currently barred.

So where's the problem regarding 'unfair discrimination' and 'lack of equality'?

Sorry for again being 'repetitive' in giving the same old answers but I'm in turn being bombarded with the same old questions!

[ahinton]

I agree you don't get involved too much in such debates (wisely) but (not for the first time) you did express an opinion on the matter which has contributed to the debate.

Not sure I get your point about Darby and Derek. As I firmly believe that marriage is for heterosexuals only I'm not likely to agree with you, am I?

That is not to say I wouldn't wish Darby and Derek all the companionship and happiness in the world and they can easily commit officially to each other by way of a Civil Partnership from which heterosexuals are currently barred.

So where's the problem regarding 'unfair discrimination' and 'lack of equality'?

Sorry for again being 'repetitive' in giving the same old answers but I'm in turn being bombarded with the same old questions!

But whatever you may think of same sex marriage as an institution (and you've just about made us all aware of your view of that!), what do you think about it, dispassionately, as a candidate for export? Do you think that it could help to improve the ailing British economy?

[scottycelt]

I certainly hope so too!!

But many men want to marry women, many women want to marry men, many men want to marry men, many women want to marry women.

And I can't see any reason why they shouldn't if that's what they want to do....

[EDIT - I think we're still waiting for Scotty to give his reasons as to why they shouldn't... ]

I don't wish to be too unkind, vinteuil, but have you ever considered a visit to Specsavers ... ?

[scottycelt]

But whatever you may think of same sex marriage as an institution (and you've just about made us all aware of your view of that!), what do you think about it, dispassionately, as a candidate for export? Do you think that it could help to improve the ailing British economy?

The British economy is no longer ailing, ahinton ... it is on the mend so relax!

[french frank]

As I firmly believe that marriage is for heterosexuals only I'm not likely to agree with you, am I?

No, you're not. But as the issue (as I expressed it re Darby and Joan) had nothing do with the natural production or rearing of children, your firm belief is apparently grounded on what has always been the case and what the dictionaries say. Neither of which has been resistant to change in many cases. Indeed, even in this matter, both have changed.

[ahinton]

The British economy is no longer ailing, ahinton ... it is on the mend so relax!

If you believe that, you'll believe that I am an Englishman!...

[vinteuil]

I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman

... and so your "belief" should stop people who wish to be happy by getting married from doing so???

What kind of reason is that?

... But many men want to marry women, many women want to marry men, many men want to marry men, many women want to marry women.

And I can't see any reason why they shouldn't if that's what they want to do....

[EDIT - I think we're still waiting for Scotty to give his reasons as to why they shouldn't... ]

I don't wish to be too unkind, vinteuil, but have you ever considered a visit to Specsavers ... ?

It wd help, Scotty, if you answered the question.


But I think the answer has been provided above - your objection is that, as Flosshilde put it -

I think he's given his reasons - which amount to 'I don't like it'.

[scottycelt]

No, you're not. But as the issue (as I expressed it re Darby and Joan) had nothing do with the natural production or rearing of children, your firm belief is apparently grounded on what has always been the case and what the dictionaries say. Neither of which has been resistant to change in many cases. Indeed, even in this matter, both have changed.

There is no law that says that marrieds must have children, obviously some cannot. But marriage has always MEANT the union of a man and woman and nothing else. It has been a clearly defined term for the official union of two of the opposite sex

If you are right there is no earthly reason why the word 'man' could not now be altered to include 'woman' on the grounds of discrimination and vice-versa? After all, with the advent of 'gay marriage' the words 'husband' and 'wife' are set to disappear (officially) as the French have already discovered!

[scottycelt]

It wd help, Scotty, if you answered the question.


But I think the answer has been provided above - your objection is that, as Flosshilde put it -

No, Flossie simply repeated Pab's original diversionary assertion.

Well, of course I (and many others) 'don't like it' when social-engineering politicians start meddling with the long-standing meaning of words.

My objection is simple and straightforward and should be easily understood. Unlike others, I didn't make up my own definition of marriage. I have simply believed what it has always been defined in every dictionary and by every person for centuries until now. Like an elephant is an elephant and a giraffe a giraffe.

What is so difficult to understand about this apparently revolutionary concept, vinteuil ... ?

[MrGongGong]

There is no law that says that marrieds must have children, obviously some cannot. But marriage has always MEANT the union of a man and woman and nothing else. It has been a clearly defined term for the official union of two of the opposite sex

If you are right there is no earthly reason why the word 'man' could not now be altered to include 'woman' on the grounds of discrimination and vice-versa? After all, with the advent of 'gay marriage' the words 'husband' and 'wife' are set to disappear (officially) as the French have already discovered!

Can you think of a word that HAS changed it's meaning in some way ?
how about MUSIC for example ?
Music has been enriched by a widening of meaning
Just because something has meant something in the past doesn't mean that it should stand for ever more
just what is "Traditional Marriage" ?
is that the sort where marital rape us acceptable ?
or that women have no financial autonomy ?
seems a bad idea to me that should be consigned to the past ...........

It's not true that it's meant "nothing else" it USED to mean all sorts of nasty things that have no place in a civilised society
what is this obsession with genitalia ?

Like an elephant is an elephant and a giraffe a giraffe.

aaah so it's part of a creationist thing ?
now I get it
elephants have changed
as have giraffes

http://www.ilike.org.uk/images/little_prince.jpg

[Flosshilde]

But marriage has always MEANT the union of a man and woman and nothing else. It has been a clearly defined term for the official union of two of the opposite sex

Yes, it always MEANT the union of a man and a woman. Now it MEANS the union of two people, whether that be a man and a woman, two men or two women. It is NOW the clearly defined term for the union of two of the opposite sex OR two of the same sex.


I really don't care what you, or the Pope, think.

[MrGongGong]

I really don't care what you, or the Pope, think.

Is that Pope Joan ?
oooops there's another one gone

[vinteuil]

Tempora mutantur, scotty. Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis as we used to say.

Nowadays we wd say - times change, and we change with them.

But perhaps in scottyworld nothing ever changes.