Rite of Spring (2)

[Guest]

Unless you've been living on another planet you can't have missed that this Wednesday, May 29 is the 100th anniversary of the first performance of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring.

Anybody got any special memories of what this work means to them or of memorable performances? When was the first time you heard it? And which recording will Forum members be playing on Wednesday night?

It means nothing to me at all. I can't recall the first time I heard it, but my reaction would no doubt have been the same as it is now - switch off or over after the first few minutes, because to me it is noisy, jarring and unpleasant, completely without any beauty, and I see no reason to subject myself to such an experience. I shan't be playing any recording of it on Wednesday - indeed, I've just had an email which leads me to suppose I may not even be in Europe on Wednesday, so I shall probably not hear it.

That said, I'm happy if it pleases others. I love the beauty and harmonious, uplifting joy one can find in the music of Mozart and Mendelssohn, and some, I gather, can't stand their work at any price.

"It'd be a rum old world if we was allt'same."

[ahinton]

It means nothing to me at all.

From what you go on to write, it appears that it does indeed mean something to you, albeit quite remarkably negative.

I can't recall the first time I heard it

So one might be forgiven for wondering at the extent to which you were concentrating on that occasion, whenever it may have been.

but my reaction would no doubt have been the same as it is now

If the piece means nothing to you and you cannot reall when first you heard it, how can you be so certain that your reaction to it would not have changed in the interim? - unless, of course, you have consciously decided to keep your mind closed on it...

switch off or over after the first few minutes

What's so special to you about the work's first few minutes that apparently fails to sustain interest for you thereafter?

because to me it is noisy

If you're talking mere dynamic levels, so are lots of things, for the same could be said of many works calling for large orchestral forces, be they by Berlioz, Mahler, Strauss or (fill in the name of your choice).

jarring

Against what, precisely?

and unpleasant

To you (and at least you have the grace to admit that you're writing only of your personal reaction)..

completely without any beauty

How do you define beauty in musical terms and by what specific parameters are you able to distinguish - even if only for yourself - between music that is beautiful and that which is not?

I see no reason to subject myself to such an experience

Some of us might equally see no reason to read of take seriously what you've written about this seminal work, but some of us nevertheless do so!...

That said, I'm happy if it pleases others.

Well, that's might generous of you! - especially considering the hundreds of conductors and orchestras over the past century who have seen fit to perform it.

I love the beauty and harmonious, uplifting joy one can find in the music of Mozart and Mendelssohn, and some, I gather, can't stand their work at any price.

Some, perhaps but, apart from the contextual irrelevance of either composer in a serious discussion of responses to Le Sacre du Printemps, it is well known that Stravinsky himself was not one of their number at least where Mozart was concerned; he adored Mozart, as did many composers from Haydn and Beethoven through, Chopin and Liszt, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Strauss, Britten et al to Carter and beyond; as to Mendelssohn, let's not forget the remark in which Barenboim opined that, wonderful as the best of his work is and much as it is widely admired and loved, had he not existed the course of European music would have been just the same. By the way, can you account in your own words for the "beauties" in Mendelssohn's sixth and last quartet, the Op. 80 in F minor?

Do you perhaps find listening to the piece on a CD or live in the concert hall an inadequate experience and prefer to do so at a choreographed production? What views to you have about the dance aspect of the piece?

I've never been wholly convinced that the work is quite as ground-breaking as it is commonly thought to be, given that it was composed after most of Debussy's work, Ravel's Daphnis et Chloë, Strauss's Salome and Elektra, Schönberg's Funf Orchesterstücke, Mahler's Ninth and Tenth symphonies, Skryabin's Prometheus and the composer's own l'Oiseau de Feu, but that fact no more undermines my recognition of it as one of the most important works of its day than it does my appreciation of its constant core repertoire position ever since it première; Carter (who, I believe, attended its US première, is by no means the only composer to have declared that listening to it for the first time inspired him to be a composer himself.

[Pianoman]

A great reply that he doesn't deserve - he obviously thinks music stopped in the mid-1800s, or he's deaf - or both ..

[ahinton]

A great reply that he doesn't deserve - he obviously thinks music stopped in the mid-1800s, or he's deaf - or both ..

Well, thank you for your kind words and it's not for me to say whether he thinks that or is deaf or both but, if his attitude to music is as you imply that it might be (and I doubt that, frankly), one might wonder what he'd think of the Grosse Fuge, Chopin's B minor Scherzo, Alkan's Duo for violin and piano, the Mendelssohn quartet that I mentioned earlier or certain works by Berlioz, all of which date from the first half of the 19th century.

[amateur51]

How do you define beauty in musical terms and by what specific parameters are you able to distinguish - even if only for yourself - between music that is beautiful and that which is not?

I can help you there, ahinton. Simon is on record as recommending Lachenmann Mouvement "if you need a lift"

[ahinton]

I can help you there, ahinton. Simon is on record as recommending Lachenmann Mouvement "if you need a lift"

Yes, I recall that now, but I don't think that the citation of a single work with no further contextual elucidation than this quite passes muster, do you?! Anyway, if I need a lift, I usually press a button to take one (although I prefer the term "elevator", which I imagine is not widely used for such a device in even Willesden Green, let alone in rural Derbyshire where they probably don't have too many of them anyway and most if not all of those few that do exist are likely operated by means of a hand pump such as one might find on the side of small organs to ærate them in village churches there).

[french frank]

one might wonder what he'd think of the Grosse Fuge

I seem to recall (or did I dream this?) that Beethoven's later string quartets were 'the works of a madman'....

[ahinton]

I seem to recall (or did I dream this?) that Beethoven's later string quartets were 'the works of a madman'....

Quite - which is why I cited the Grosse Fuge in my response to Simon. Not only that, you should see some of the barbed reviews of the première of Chopin's E minor Piano Concerto with the young composer as soloist! As to some people's idea of "beauty" in music and what they seem to have sought to persuade themselves that music is supposed to do for its listeners, the middle movement of the Alkan Duo that I mentioned is supposed to be a representation of Hell (the composer titles it l'Enfer) and some of the harmonies in it run quite close to suggestions of clusters in places (albeit also with a curious premonition of Busoni's Second Sonata for the same forces), before the finale goes like a bat out of Hell towards its brilliant F# major conclusion. I read somewhere that Chopin described most of the work as unplayable but the problem was that parts of it were playable (although I suspect that this was said with tongue firmly in both cheeks, especially as Alkan was one of his friends!)