The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[cloughie]

Not if Breakfast finishes, as now, at 9am

Have I missed something here it was your suggestion?

[french frank]

Have I missed something here it was your suggestion?

Oh, dear. I'm too subtle for my own good, not to say obscure. Like, I mean, if the Breakfast feature was moved to 9.30am and Breakfast went off air at 9am, like, no one would hear it, would they?

Just a thought!

[amateur51]

Oh, dear. I'm too subtle for my own good, not to say obscure. Like, I mean, if the Breakfast feature was moved to 9.30am and Breakfast went off air at 9am, like, no one would hear it, would they?

Just a thought!

Blimey steady french frank - that sort of line may prove a useful alternative to the standard "I'm afraid I don't recall" line being used at the Leveson Inquiry

[cloughie]

Oh, dear. I'm too subtle for my own good, not to say obscure. Like, I mean, if the Breakfast feature was moved to 9.30am and Breakfast went off air at 9am, like, no one would hear it, would they?

Just a thought!

But we want to improve Essential Classics - don't give them ideas!

[french frank]

But we want to improve Essential Classics

Or, even better, dump it and start again with a different brief.

I think they've worked out that the 9am - noon slot can attract a bigger audience than 7am - 10am (the old Breakfast hours). Hence Inessential Clutter has become the flagship 3-hour morning programme, with Rob moved on from Breakfast. It's the competition for John Suchet on Classic FM, which is also the later morning programme. The two programmes are in head-to-head competition to attract the post-Today (9am) Radio 4 listeners looking for some lightish music. Disgraceful that the BBC Trust is so unaware it didn't even see a need for a Market Impact Assessment. I expect Radio 3 said it wasn't necessary as the two programmes are 'quite, quite, different' and isn't aimed at CFM listeners. [No, it's aimed at R4 listeners to stop them switching over to CFM]

[cloughie]

Or, even better, dump it and start again with a different brief.

Or even better return to the CD Masters brief. That was in no way broken, so why was it fixed?

[amateur51]

Disgraceful that the BBC Trust is so unaware it didn't even see a need for a Market Impact Assessment. I expect Radio 3 said it wasn't necessary as the two programmes are 'quite, quite, different' and isn't aimed at CFM listeners. [No, it's aimed at R4 listeners to stop them switching over to CFM]

That'll ruin Lord Patten's barbecue no doubt

[amateur51]

Or even better return to the CD Masters brief. That was in no way broken, so why was it fixed?

With you all the way there, cloughie

[Norfolk Born]

Is there any evidence that Radio 4 listeners switch in any great numbers to either Radio 3 or Classic FM?

[cloughie]

Is there any evidence that Radio 4 listeners switch in any great numbers to either Radio 3 or Classic FM?

So what you are suggesting is that Roger is wrong again - not only are new listeners joining but old listeners are still leaving - so when's he going to see the error of his ways and go back to proper R3?

[Suffolkcoastal]

Sadly the man seems to be far too arrogant to ever admit he's wrong.

[french frank]

Is there any evidence that Radio 4 listeners switch in any great numbers to either Radio 3 or Classic FM?

Some evidence, yes. About 15% of R4 listeners listen to R3; turn that round and you get that 70% of R3 listeners listen to R4.

Remember, most listeners listen to more than one station. There are very few "CFM listeners" in the sense that they only listen to CFM and nothing else. Where do you think their 5.5m listeners come from? The answer is that large numbers are shared with R2 and R4 (plus some from R3). It's recognised that 9am is a 'switchover' point. When Today ends, many R4 listeners are looking for a change. Many go to CFM and the BBC wants them to come to R3. Hence the competition.

Evidence? Go back to 1995 when Paul Gambaccini moved from CFM to R3. In Radio Times (Radio Times 3-9 February 1996 pp 6-7) he wrote: “I had a specific mission to invite Today listeners to stay with the BBC rather than go to Classic FM, and to do it in a way which was consistent with the quality and content of Radio 3.”

Compare that with the commissioning brief of Essential Classics last year: "This is a significant part of Radio 3’s weekday daytime schedule and should aim to hold on to as much of the breakfast audience as possible whilst drawing in new listeners from the post-Today Radio 4 switch over [i.e. 9am]."

If that isn't evidence of competing directly with Classic FM, what do you want?

[Norfolk Born]

Thank you, that's very interesting. I always listen to 'Today', but now hardly ever tune to Radio 3. Exceptions are the Lunchtime Concert (sometimes), Saturday Classics (sometimes) and JRR (always), 'Private Passions' (always), and quite often the Early Music Show. I try to listen to 'Late Junction' but almost invariably fall asleep. The more I listen to Radio 4, the more I find to listen to on it, if you understand me. My latest 'discovery' is 'BH' on Sunday morning.
(I've never believed the line that Radio 3 isn't competing with Classic FM, by the way).

[Suffolkcoastal]

Nor have I. The evidence is clearly there, in the presentation style and in the same works/chunks that R3 now churns out with monotonous regularity, which regularly seem to reflect the various 'Most Wanted' and Hall of Fame charts on CFM.

[Bax-of-Delights]

The serendipity of R4's morning programmes (as opposed to R3's extremely predictable go-around of the same pieces) often throws up some fascinating items. I think it was last Friday that Woman's Hour had a feature on the women composers, Maconchy, Grace Williams and Lutyens - with extracts from their music. Apart from CotW when did you ever hear any of their music on R3?