The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[Don Petter]

The above sums up very neatly why I now listen to Radio3 less than I ever have before. And I fear things will get worse before they get better. If they ever do....

Same here! These sorts of trivia, like sex and violence, we can get enough of at home.

[Don Petter]

oops, the timings look a bit strange on this morning's playlist everything's happening between 7:00 and 8:00

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01463nc

It's the new plan. Get all the intrusive musical snippets over quickly - then settle down to the chat.

[Norfolk Born]

0814: Chopin: Minute Waltz
0856: The best of this week's 'Embarrassing Extracts from My Holiday Diary'
0957: Mahler: Adagietto from the 5th symphony (the bit where Dirk Bogarde's gondola passes under the bridge)
0959: Result of the 'My Favourite Music to Trim My Beard to' poll.

[Don Petter]

My bet is something by Carlos Chavez.

[Norfolk Born]

The winner turned out to be Haydn's String Quartet Op. 55 No. 2, followed by a compilation of Samuel Barber's greatest hits.

[antongould]

I'm sure we will all be up with Petroc at 06.30 on Monday - I know I shall. If the knives are still sharp the playlist has appeared! I thought Mr. Cowan went out quite gracefully this morning.

[Bax-of-Delights]

I'm sure we will all be up with Petroc at 06.30 on Monday - I know I shall. If the knives are still sharp the playlist has appeared! I thought Mr. Cowan went out quite gracefully this morning.

Here's Monday's offerings:
06:31
Telemann
Fanfare from Suite in D major TWV 55 D:18
Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin
Harmonia Mundi HMX 2901795
Tr. 13

06:34
Parry
I was glad
Choir of Winchester Cathedral
Waynflete Singers
Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra
David Hill
Argo 430 836-2
Tr. 1

06:42
Faure
Dolly - suite for piano duet (Op.56), no.1; Berceuse
Katia & Marielle Labeque [piano]
Philips 420 1592
Tr. 13

06:45
Brahms
Academic festival overture (Op.80)
Berlin Philharmonic
Claudio Abbado
DG 435 6832
Tr. 1

07:03
Bernstein
Mambo from West Side Story
Simon Bolivar Youth Orchestra of Venezuela
Gustavo Dudamel [conductor]
DG 477 8337
Tr. 11

07:06
Claude DEBUSSY
Images - no.1; Reflets dans l'eau
Pierre-Laurent Aimard [piano]
Warner 8573 83940-2
Tr. 1

07:11
Marin Marais
Sonnerie de St Genevieve du Mont de Paris
Le Concert des Nations
Jordi Savall [bass viol and direction]
Alia Vox AV 9821
Tr. 16

07:20
Delibes
Les Chasseresses from Sylvia
New Philharmonia Orchestra
Richard Bonynge [conductor]
Decca 478 1526
CD8 Tr. 15

07:31
Vivaldi
L’Olimpiade RV 725 (Sinfonia)
Orfeo 55
Nathalie Stutzmann [director]
DG 476 4390
Tr. 15-17

07:37
Chopin
Nocturne Op 27 no 2
Maria Joao Pires [piano]
DG 477 8445
CD7 Tr. 8

07:44
Shostakovich
Festival Overture Op 96
Russian National Orchestra
Mikhail Pletnev [conductor]
DG 439 8922
Tr. 3

07:53
Haydn
Symphony no.104 (H.1.104) in D major "London", 4th movement; Finale
Les Musiciens du Louvre-Grenobles
Marc Minkowski [conductor]
Naïve V 5176
Tr. 12

08:03
Copland
Hoedown from Rodeo
San Francisco Symphony Orchestra
Michael Tilson Thomas [conductor]
RCA 09026635112
Tr. 6

08:07
Pergolesi
Stabat Mater
The Academy of Ancient Music
Emma Kirkby [soprano]
ames Bowman [counter tenor]
Christopher Hogwood [conductor]
L'Oiseau-Lyre 425 692-2
Tr. 1

08:12
Mozart
Divertimento K251: 1st mvt: Allegro molto
Scottish Chamber Orchestra
Alexander Janiczek [director]
LINN CKD 320
Tr. 10

08:17
Rachmaninov
Concerto for piano and orchestra no. 2 (Op. 18) in C minor: 2nd mvt - Adagio Sostenuto
Simon Trpceski [piano]
Royal Liverpool Philharmonic
Vasily Petrenko [conductor]
Avie AV 2192
Tr. 2

08:31
Bach
Gloria from Mass in F major BWV 233
Chorus and Orchestra of Collegium Vocale Ghent
Philippe Herreweghe [director]
Virgin 6 28481 2 1
CD1 Tr. 2

08:37
Elgar
Where Corals lie from Sea Pictures
Dame Janet Baker
London Symphony Orchestra
Sir John Barbirolli [conductor]
Philips 465 253-2
Tr. 2

08:42
Sibelius
Symphony No 5 – 3rd mvt (Finale)
Oslo Philharmonic Orchestra
Maris Jansons [conductor]
Label tbc
Tr. tbc


A confection of (very) familiar pieces and bleeding chunks tumbled together into a cake of unutterable blandness that would sit well in CFM schedules at any time of the day or night.

It so happens that I am handling (for the estate) the library of books and CDs of a late and dear customer of mine. The Cds number into thousands (gulp!) and I am having a marvellous weekend opening box after box of fascinating material. What has struck me about the material among the CDs is how LITTLE of it we ever hear on R3. Here is a recording of Rubbra's Four Medieval Latin Lyrics using the same texts as the Orff Carmina Burana - but how much more delicate and intriguing is the Rubbra!! And the beautiful Spenser sonnets. Any of these would be perfect material for the Breakfast programme yet we get the same old, same old, rehashed and regurgitated week after week.

[vinteuil]

.... we get the same old, same old, rehashed and regurgitated week after week.

yes, I find it odd that of the hundreds (more than six hundred, I think?) of Schubert Lieder we hear, again and again, perhaps the same dozen - and of the hundreds of Bach organ works (what, two hundred or so?) we hear, again and again, the same handful - but mostly just the one, weakest, piece, of doubtful attribution....

I love Schubert Lieder and Bach organ works. Doesn't the BBC have people of sufficient imagination and range to move away from the corny 'hundred best tunes'?

[Serial_Apologist]

Probably no longer the knowledge, vint.

[Frances_iom]

Doesn't the BBC have people of sufficient imagination and range to move away from the corny 'hundred best tunes'?

It almost certainly has those with imagination(tho not in leadership positions) but the marketing dept believes that its audience doesnt have sufficient imagination and actually wants corn - preferably doused in syrup and spoon fed

[french frank]

I love Schubert Lieder and Bach organ works. Doesn't the BBC have people of sufficient imagination and range to move away from the corny 'hundred best tunes'?

Well, there's certainly no absolute need to do so if the target audience of 'new listeners' (presumably not even listening to R3 at the moment) don't know that they're corny old 'hundred best tunes'. (Good to see the Listen With Mother theme tune has made it to welcome them on the first morning.)

[Bax-of-Delights]

Ah, FF, but do the compilers of this mish-mash actually KNOW it's the theme that was used for "Listen With Mother"? Somehow I suspect they don't...

[french frank]

Three thoughts have occurred to me

1. Looking at that playlist, it presents for me a programme of music not worth switching on for. It would be having the radio on just for the sake of it. If I were going off to work I would probably listen to the news headlines and then turn off and get on with whatever I needed to do. Nae bother.

2.But on top of a nil interest programme of music, what for me is worse is what I perceive to be an assault on my intelligence by Radio 3, with all the chatter and 'features' - whether charts, comedians, trails, quizzes, votes, emails, phone-ins. I can't think of any repetitive music that would make me start the day feeling more miserable that I would being forced to listen to all that.

3. It seems to me that there is absolutely no need to exclude any particular audience. You don't have to have 70-minute Bruckner symphonies or the Birtwistle violin concerto at that time in the morning. Nor do you need Classic FM. You could hit a middle way in terms of length, familiarity and musical interest. My memory is that they used to do that. So where did the idea come from that it all had to be Jolly Simple? The new listeners weren't listening - so were they complaining, hammering on the door wanting to invade the neighbouring territory?

This all seems so unnecessary.

[antongould]

.........the target audience of 'new listeners' (presumably not even listening to R3 at the moment)

I worry about the "if you say it often enough it must be true" element to the Two Nations view of Radio 3. Are there any statistics to support the claim that those who listen to Breakfast are text, talk and phone in junkies who never listen to a second of R3 after 10.00? What I hear on a fair breadth of R3 and glean on reading as many of the threads on these Boards as I can manage would suggest it might be an extreme view!?

[french frank]

Are there any statistics to support the claim that those who listen to Breakfast are text, talk and phone in junkies who never listen to a second of R3 after 10.00?

No. And, in fact, Essential Classics has been designed to actually keep the breakfast listeners listening as far as possible.

But I do know people who have been switching on at 10am because they found Classical Collection tolerable and Breakfast not.