The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[mercia]

I guess we better tune-in tomorrow to make sure Rob pronounces it correctly

[french frank]

I guess we better tune-in tomorrow to make sure Rob pronounces it correctly

Not that it matters greatly, but it's an anagram of The Ape Voices

[arancie33]

I guess we better tune-in tomorrow to make sure Rob pronounces it correctly

Heaven forbid that I participate in a witch hunt over something so trivial but, unless my ears deceived me, he managed to pronounce "Voi" as though it were a French word. Not very impressive for a Radio 3 presenter, let alone one so often praised for his depth of musical knowledge. Please, someone, "Listen Again", +2.04ish, and tell me I'm wrong.

[vinteuil]

you're not wrong.

[arancie33]

you're not wrong.

There's a relief then - I thought I might be getting a bit paranoid over Rob Cowan's pronunciations, to my ear always a bit forced and thus mangled.

[french frank]

I listened to the four text messages leading in to the piece (the fourth one beginning 'Hi, Rob') and I wondered why anybody thinks that people can't listen properly at that time in the morning. They hear the topic well enough, they concentrate on texting in their messages, how come they're not supposed to be able to listen to a piece of music any longer than eight minutes?

Perhaps only the four texters were concentrating, and the rest just allowed brief snatches of Brindisi, Catfish Row, Brahms's Hungarian Dance No 1, Vilja, o, Vilja, Chabrier's Espagna, the Scherzo from the Eroica, the Pearl Fishers duet &c. to waft in and out of their consciousness? Lovely!

It must be very restful not to feel under any obligation to actually listen to the music.

[antongould]

It must be very restful not to feel under any obligation to actually listen to the music.

Don't get me wrong ff I don't necessarily consider this bait but as your, now long standing, sparring partner I am rising to it and probably irritating just about everyone hereabouts in the process.

But a few points

Is not, at least on almost every station I have "met", the breakfast slot different in usually involving shorter pieces because the bulk of the audience is effectively dashing hither and thither - does Today do long half hour interviews on the state of the Tea Party? Hear something that catches the attention and you can, if circumstances permit - pick it up.

On R3 does Breakfast not have what almost amounts to an obligation to attract new listeners not only to the show but to the station? I have asked before where the new audience is to come from and unless, my memory fails me, all I get is well we i.e. FOR3 boarders got here by wishing to expand so can the "youth" of today. My point is the youth of today are cheese to our chalk a whole world of entertainment and knowledge is at their keyboards and classical music can and will, IMHO, get lost. Further various threads have bemoaned the savage decline in the standard and quality of musical education in our seats of learning and that has to have an impact.
So to capture an audience is going to be harder and so if it takes Mozart 40, Vivaldi's Winter and Gershwin's Rhapsody as this morning to do it then so be it I (alone) say. The Gershwin to me is an ideal cross-over piece - it worked for me all those years ago why not for today's potential audience?

[Suffolkcoastal]

I don't how many times I've said this but that I and probably many MB's aren't bothered about the short pieces on Breakfast, its the fact that its the same short pieces over and over again ad nauseam. I put together 20 Breakfast programmes in a couple of hours or so without the need to include any of the usual Breakfast 'favourites' and including as wide a range as possible and at least 15-20 pieces over the 3 hours. If I can put togther that many programmes in such a short period of time then I'm sure someone at R3 should be able to do it if they wanted.

Also as I've said countless times; if you keep catering to your beginners without much variety than you risk driving away your regulars and ultimately your beginners too, as they'll think that is all there is to a certain composer etc and get bored and move on. As I mentioned on another thread this morning playing the same limited repetoire is highly detremental to a composer and his music as it gives a very lopsided view.

R3 was my learning tool in classical music when I was in my teens in the late 70's, early 80's. The wide variety of music played, without the need to continually ram the same handful of pieces down your throat as it does now, encouraged me to explore the huge range of classical music and has fostered my love for classical music for the rest of my life. If I were in my teens now, unless I had a natural curiosity and drive (plus the money) to explore the variety of CD/download recordings available, I doubt that listening to R3 would instill the same passion for classical music within me and I'd probably have moved away to other musical genres. I would also add that I never once found R3 patronising when I was younger.

[antongould]

With fear and trepidation does one respond to suffolkcoastal and salymap from a couple and days ago knowing that the ire of ff is probably yet to come.

BUT I too have repeated this a lot - it is not, sadly you might say, the 60s or 70s and the youngsters of today are not the youngsters of then - I have 5 children who I study with more than a passing interest. The number of stations, types of entertainment etc. are much, much larger now they have to an extent the attention spans of gnats - they watch the TV with a PC on their laps for Gawd's sake. So pieces probably have to be short and something that is familiar even if it is from the Call Centre queue.
What worked for us won't I feel work for them.

Then I have a 4 year old grandson scary or what.....................

[french frank]

Is not, at least on almost every station I have "met", the breakfast slot different in usually involving shorter pieces because the bulk of the audience is effectively dashing hither and thither

Quite probably. But not every station has an audience knocking 60 which is not dashing anywhere, only a third being in full-time employment. Such an audience surely has a right to be catered for - since every other station caters for a younger audience.

I think there's too much generalising over what a 'youth audience' is like. Ninety percent of them aren't going to be interested in what Radio 3 does anyway (and never have been in previous generations). I think you must have faith that there is a younger generation that is capable of listening, concentrating and appreciating. But most of the new listeners will be people in their 30s and 40s. There was no evidence that Radio 3's audience was gradually declining and that there had to be a drastic policy change to attract more people. On the other hand, one of the biggest slumps in recent years came after the 2007 changes.

The BBC just wants to attract the 'wider' audience (the 'narrower' audience being the one that's actually interested in music). Radio 3 is NOT targeting a youth audience (Rob Cowan? James Jolly?): it's targeting middle-aged people with a casual interest in classical music who are catered for by Classic FM. It justifies that by suggesting (increasingly questionably) that there's something 'distinctive' about what R3 is providing for that audience.

Further various threads have bemoaned the savage decline in the standard and quality of musical education in our seats of learning and that has to have an impact.

That doesn't excuse R3 going the same way.

so if it takes Mozart 40

Classic FM Hall of Fame 170

Vivaldi's Winter

Classic FM Hall of Fame 36

and Gershwin's Rhapsody

Classic FM Hall of Fame 21

Even if I agreed with all your arguments (which I don't), 5 hours every morning devoted to your 'potential' audience seems excessive. Doesn't it?

[Suffolkcoastal]

It is true that today's youngsters needs are different, but at the same time there is now an unbelievable amount of recorded classical music out there in a variety of format and an enviable opportunity to explore it. You would think then that R3 would be encouraging people to do that by playing as wide a variety of music as possible to capture and keep new listeners, is playing a Hungarian Dance on average every 3-4 days and the something from the Four Seasons every 5-6 days really going to encourage a wider exploration. If the attention span of new listeners is so short then surely playing the same pieces ad nauseam is going to result in increasing boredom.

[mercia]

to think, on Radio 1 they don't think twice about playing the same song half-a-dozen times a day (or more)

[Frances_iom]

to think, on Radio 1 they don't think twice about playing the same song half-a-dozen times a day (or more)

it's known as plugging - usually with some payola attached - R3's version is 'classical chart' - wonder how many 5* meals that cost whilst being setup.

[Suffolkcoastal]

R1 and commercial 'pop' stations plug things to death until the 'single' is released then it virtually disappears from the airwaves, to occasionally resurface in programmes devoted to what is called 'old school' I believe.

[french frank]

on Radio 1 they don't think twice about playing the same song half-a-dozen times a day (or more)

And on Radio 2. But they both have official playlists which change as the new releases change.

"The playlist contains about 30 tracks which are divided into three levels: A list, which receive the most plays, about 20 each week ; B list 10 plays and the C list around 5 plays."

Record of the Week
Hear this track every day this week with Ken Bruce and Alex Lester
Juan Zelada - Breakfast in Spitalfields
Insomnia Records
Single release: 25 July 2011

Album of the Week
Hear tracks from this album all week with Ken Bruce and Alex Lester
Blondie - Panic Of Girls
Eleven Seven Music
CD Release: 4 July 2011


I can foresee R3 adopting a playlist soon: Hear this track every morning this week with Rob Cowan and James Jolly

Ravel: La Valse
&c &c