The Eternal Breakfast Debate in a New Place

[mercia]

an account of Becky's youth hostelling holiday

[doversoul1]

I don't listen to Breakfast, preferring either silence or Today but I thought I would give it a whirl this morning.

She was going to play an extract from Rinaldo by Handel around 7.50 and she said: There's Handel, chugging along doing those repetitive da capo arias and suddenly there's one of those moments that makes you sit up and wonder 'Where on earth does he get that from?'

It reminded me of the time when language tutors in adult education were ‘strongly advised’ not to use grammatical terms in the class, as it would scare the students away. ‘Culture’ should be restricted to talking about well know tourist spots so that nobody would feel excluded….

[Serial_Apologist]

It reminded me of the time when language tutors in adult education were ‘strongly advised’ not to use grammatical terms in the class, as it would scare the students away. ‘Culture’ should be restricted to talking about well know tourist spots so that nobody would feel excluded….

God, the tourist industry - that's another subject...

[antongould]

Is there an ounce of acceptance that people who love classical music form a very broad church? If so is it wrong that this broad church includes people who do not hate texts, chat, requests even phone calls in Breakfast? I, maybe wrongly, look upon the majority of subscribers to these boards as "high church" and perhaps Breakfast is not for hereabouts. But I continue to believe it has value in bringing new listeners to Radio 3 and to the world of classical music. I do not deny it could be improved especially in terms of the unnecessary repeats of chestnuts - but it has in my view, a legitimate role.
I thought the joke that opened the chat on today's chat was rather good - a man alone indeed!

[french frank]

Is there an ounce of acceptance that people who love classical music form a very broad church? If so is it wrong that this broad church includes people who do not hate texts, chat, requests even phone calls in Breakfast? I, maybe wrongly, look upon the majority of subscribers to these boards as "high church" and perhaps Breakfast is not for hereabouts. But I continue to believe it has value in bringing new listeners to Radio 3 and to the world of classical music. I do not deny it could be improved especially in terms of the unnecessary repeats of chestnuts - but it has in my view, a legitimate role.

To argue the reverse: I don't think it has any role at all, because I think that for people who tune in to Radio 3 to listen to other people chatting about their childhood memories, the music is no more than incidental. To throw 3 hours, every morning, at the task of entertaining people who could be introduced to classical music by Classic FM, while at the same time locking out other Radio 3 listeners who may have regarded the peak breakfast slot as their main time for listening seems wilful and perverse. And it isn't as if this is limited to Breakfast - it will be extending into Essential Classics after the Proms: 6.30am-midday for attracting new listeners with 'little knowledge of classical music' and playing the ... 'essential' classics. Five and a half hours every morning (except Saturdays).

In any case, it only brings in new listeners of a certain kind; it would be just as likely to turn off a 'beginner' who was expecting Radio 3 to lead them into a deeper appreciation of the music and instead was regaled with details of Becky's holiday.

[What will the Your Call audience suggest? I noticed that the 'holiday memory' piece yesterday was Eine Kleine Nachtmusik... As far as education is concerned, it's the blind leading the blind.]

[antongould]

What kind of listener do you feel it brings?
Today's holiday music was Mahler 5 movement IV - eleven wonderful minutes!

[Serial_Apologist]

What kind of listener do you feel it brings?
Today's holiday music was Mahler 5 movement IV - eleven wonderful minutes!

Out of context though. Why should I want to examine the whole of Eduard Manet's painting "Le Dejeuner sur L'Herbe" when I can just gawp at the little bit in the middle showing the naked lady? The rest is such a waste of the artist's time and effort!

[french frank]

What kind of listener do you feel it brings?

Well, RW was reported as saying that Radio 3 was 'just another radio station'. And this concept brings in (to his delight) 'just another radio listener' i.e. not necessarily people who have a wish for anything other than a popular station which happens to play classical music, but is jolly and chirpy in the mornings.

What kind of listener do you think it puts off?

[antongould]

i have to admit it puts off most, if not all, of those gathered here.
Now that i have answered your question can you answer mine re the broad church?

[Panjandrum]

What kind of listener do you feel it brings?
Today's holiday music was Mahler 5 movement IV - eleven wonderful minutes!

Eleven minutes? IOW, a completely turgid, overblown interpretation, as it should play for around about seven. They obviously think we need more syrup at breakfast.

[Norfolk Born]

Eleven minutes? IOW, a completely turgid, overblown interpretation, as it should play for around about seven. They obviously think we need more syrup at breakfast.

'Fair comment: next time we'll play just the middle of the movement'

[Frances_iom]

[QUOTE=Paul Sherratt;77924
Alan, forced by pre-arranged fortnight Paris-France break to leave new-found love Victoria, ..[/QUOTE]
yes never the same since the 'spamcans' stopped hauling the Golden Arrow and links shifted to that large trainshed north of the River.

[french frank]

i have to admit it puts off most, if not all, of those gathered here.
Now that i have answered your question can you answer mine re the broad church?

Well, we know very well that the programme is 'a primary entry point for new listeners'. We have no detailed information as to the profile of this target audience. I propose to ask for it, if they have one

For example:

1. Breakfast is peak listening time for all radio stations: so where will these new listeners come from, what station(s) are they listening to at present? Classic FM? Radio 2? [This will give some idea of their tastes and listening habits]

2. At what times of day have they usually listened to the radio: are they just breakfast listeners? If so, how likely would they be to change their habits and listen at other times of day, especially in the evenings when most people watch television?

3. What do such new listeners expect to get from Radio 3 - light entertainment (music and chat) for an hour or so while they prepare for their business of the day? Or are they seeking a wider and deeper knowledge of classical music?

4. If they have listened to Classic FM, what did they think of it?

Oh, and, of course, do they think that Jazz Record Requests would be improved by a phone-in where they nominate a piece of jazz as an opportunity to tell the jazz fans of Radio 3 about the evening in 1981 when they met their future partner, and how this was the best/worst moment of their entire lives because blah blah blah blah blah...? And now for Jamie Cullum.


[I've had notification that this morning listeners were invited to listen to the Rondo from Mozart's Clarinet Concerto (No 6 in CFM's Hall of Fame: 'Non-mover, remaining at its lowest ever position') and think of the clarinet as the electric guitar of the time. I think they have employed someone from outside to write these lines, cf. 'Sibelius didn't die until 1957 so he will have listened to Elvis.')

[antongould]

Well, we know very well that the programme is 'a primary entry point for new listeners'. We have no detailed information as to the profile of this target audience. I propose to ask for it, if they have one

For example:

1. Breakfast is peak listening time for all radio stations: so where will these new listeners come from, what station(s) are they listening to at present? Classic FM? Radio 2? [This will give some idea of their tastes and listening habits]

Radio 2.

2. At what times of day have they usually listened to the radio: are they just breakfast listeners? If so, how likely would they be to change their habits and listen at other times of day, especially in the evenings when most people watch television?

Breakfast time and mid to late evening

3. What do such new listeners expect to get from Radio 3 - light entertainment (music and chat) for an hour or so while they prepare for their business of the day? Or are they seeking a wider and deeper knowledge of classical music?

In the morning when not "fully focused" shorter items with a little of the dreaded "chat". At other times much longer pieces with only informative, related chat.

4. If they have listened to Classic FM, what did they think of it?

Hate adverts with a "will"!

Oh, and, of course, do they think that Jazz Record Requests would be improved by a phone-in where they nominate a piece of jazz as an opportunity to tell the jazz fans of Radio 3 about the evening in 1981 when they met their future partner, and how this was the best/worst moment of their entire lives because blah blah blah blah blah...? And now for Jamie Cullum.

I don't think phone ins will improve or worsen the position!

[I've had notification that this morning listeners were invited to listen to the Rondo from Mozart's Clarinet Concerto (No 6 in CFM's Hall of Fame: 'Non-mover, remaining at its lowest ever position') and think of the clarinet as the electric guitar of the time. I think they have employed someone from outside to write these lines, cf. 'Sibelius didn't die until 1957 so he will have listened to Elvis.')

I feel the profile would be interesting and have tried above to give you honest answers from a sample of one.
I would still like you to answer the questions or I will start referring to you as french cameron!

[Panjandrum]

I feel the profile would be interesting and have tried above to give you honest answers from a sample of one.
I would still like you to answer the questions or I will start referring to you as french cameron!

I think you have asked this question before (perhaps in slightly different words). This thread really has become the forum's equivalent of Groundhog Day.

However, I think this can be answered quickly and succinctly. Classic FM is a station which already exists for those who enjoy classical music with a seasoning (or perhaps peppering) of texts, emails, chats etc. Radio 3 already had carved itself a "niche" for those more demanding listeners, so why change the status quo when it already served the purpose? An analogy would be the FT becoming a tabloid, or closer to home, The Times becoming a redtop.

While Breakfast may provide an entree for those who find classical music forbidding, for those who grew up with a challenging, thought provoking station it represents a sad demise.