Margaret Thatcher dies

[ahinton]

The thrust of my post was to point out that greed and selfishness existed long before Thatcherism. So I wholly fail to see what is logically false about simply stating that!

Nothing, scotty - especially as it's true - but not only the sheer scale of each but the overt government encouragement of each was vastly greater during the Thatcher years than it was in the decade before them.

I did not go along with much of what happened under Thatcher but the taming of bullying trade unions was certainly long overdue and was beyond previous governments of either hue. So I certainly supported that, like the majority of the country at the time.

Yes, indeed it was - but the trouble with some people's overly simplistic take on this (I don't say yours) is that all trade unions got tarred with the same "bullying" brush as though trade unionism and bulling were somehow inherently synonymous, a notion which it suited the Thatcher governments to promote and which all too many members of the public accepted, despite the fact that it was patently untrue; for example, I was a member of such a union for 35 years, during which I encountered very little evidence of the kind of "bullying" tactics to which you refer.

However, my original post didn't refer to any of this, I simply pointed out the extreme partisanship of Jackson in totally ignoring the greed and selfishness and lack of concern for others that had gone on long before Thatcher ever arrived on the political scene.

And I answered it, for what doing so may or may not have been worth.

[ahinton]

So, precisely put, her constituency HAMPSTEAD & KILBURN.

Your list reinforces my point! Go take a look around!

Assuming that alleged damage to her constituency - i.e. any part thereof - was the thrust of GJ's remark, what material difference does that actually make? I don't understand...

[Julien Sorel]

So, precisely put, her constituency HAMPSTEAD & KILBURN.

Your list reinforces my point! Go take a look around!

I have . Do you seriously think if the millionaires of Hampstead Village were representative of the wider electorate their MP wouldn't be a Conservative?

[jean]

...you'd not have had to "choose" between Hatton and Thatcher because the two occupied quite different positions, therefore no such "choice" was available.

In fact, in 'choosing' Hatton you would have 'chosen' Thatcher, since it was the Militant Council's decision to set an illegal budget that gave Thatcher the opportunity to march in and take over the council's finances.

It was a gamble of Militant's that backfired badly - and yet, though Hatton himself is long gone, another of the Militant councillors of those days, Tony Mulhearn, stood in the recent Mayoral election in Liverpool proposing to do exactly the same thing all over again...

(He got quite a respectable share of the vote, beating both UKIP and assorted fascists. People have short memories.)

[Beef Oven]

I have . Do you seriously think if the millionaires of Hampstead Village were representative of the wider electorate their MP wouldn't be a Conservative?

Hamstead Village, Swiss Cottage, Belsize, Kilburn, Camden etc................... check those mushrooms you put on your toast this morning!!!!!!

[jean]

Do you seriously think if the millionaires of Hampstead Village were representative of the wider electorate their MP wouldn't be a Conservative?

It's a very special demographic. Have you never heard of Hampstead socialists?

[Beef Oven]

(He got quite a respectable share of the vote, beating both UKIP and assorted fascists. People have short memories.)

Bet UKIP lost a loada sleep over that one

[Beef Oven]

Have you never heard of Hampstead socialists?

Yes, they're all bloody middle-class Anthony Wedgwood types

[Julien Sorel]

It's a very special demographic. Have you never heard of Hampstead socialists?

I've heard of them - I've never met one. Bit like Big Foot or the Loch Ness Monster .

[scottycelt]

Yes, indeed it was - but the trouble with some people's overly simplistic take on this (I don't say yours) is that all trade unions got tarred with the same "bullying" brush as though trade unionism and bulling were somehow inherently synonymous, a notion which it suited the Thatcher governments to promote and which all too many members of the public accepted, despite the fact that it was patently untrue; for example, I was a member of such a union for 35 years, during which I encountered very little evidence of the kind of "bullying" tactics to which you refer.

So was I (though not for 35 years!) and neither did I, ahinton ...

However, "bullying" and "trade unions" are no more synonymous with each other than "greedy and selfish" and "Thatcherism". Nonetheless, we do tend to get both bullying trade unions (Scargill's NUM was a prime example) and greedy and selfish Thatcherites (Fred Goodwin etc) so maybe we can at least agree that both are A BAD THING for society and need to be brought under some sort of control?

[anotherbob]

Hello there,

I came across this very interesting and thought provoking piece from The Daily Telegraph:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9984619/Margaret-Thatcher-This-is-a-state-funeral-and-thats-a-mistake.html

That is interesting, especially when found in The Telegraph.
I can't help thinking that the proposed format of Thatcher's funeral recalls the near-hysterical reaction to the death of the "People's Princess" and the subsequent inclination of people to attach flowers to lamposts at the scene of fatal road accidents. Can it be that these "chavvy" tendencies have worked their way up the social scale?

[ahinton]

Bet UKIP lost a loada sleep over that one

Indeed; after all, it's hardly as though they're any more concerned about winning seats as the unlikelihood of their doing so warrants their being so, is it?

[ahinton]

So was I (though not for 35 years!) and neither did I, ahinton ...

However, "bullying" and "trade unions" are no more synonymous with each other than "greedy and selfish" and "Thatcherism". Nonetheless, we do tend to get both bullying trade unions (Scargill's NUM was a prime example) and greedy and selfish Thatcherites (Fred Goodwin etc) so maybe we can at least agree that both are A BAD THING for society and need to be brought under some sort of control?

I'm sure that we can and do. Scargill's NUM was indeed a prime example but, as such, served to give trade unionism a bad name that it had very little business to deserve. I could hardly disagree with your remarks about Goodwin although I would add that recent developments and discoveries appear increasingly to reveal that he was hardly alone in his behaviour in his profession.

[eighthobstruction]

There will almost certainly be some sort of demonstration....where will the disenters be coraled....??

[anotherbob]

There will almost certainly be some sort of demonstration....where will the desenters be coraled....??

They could use Buck House.... Brenda will be at the "do".