(Formerly) CE from York

[Lizzie]

I would just like to say that the Music Staff at Winchester are VERY active and work incredibly hard in terms of music outreach into schools in the Diocese, and the Be a Chorister for a Day is incredibly popular and well-supported for both Boys and Girls. I suggest sweeping statements about the shortcomings of DoMs should not be made in public forum such as this, especially anonymously. I KNOW about Winchester so can and will comment but, I don't know about other Foundations so, would not do them, their DoMs and Music Staff, a possible disservice by assuming that I know what they all do. Liz

[Wolsey]

AAMOI, what kinds of things does the Organists Assoc talk about? Would such a topic come up in the normal course of events? or would that sort of thing be done over the coffee and eats?

Genuine question - not trying to make a point at all, just curious.

The conferences are INSET-based, with opportunities for soclalising. Sessions comprise lecture recitals; panel discussions (e.g. choirs schools - the Leeds model; Arts funding; organ scholars and their training; chorister education; chorister outreach; children's learning difficulties; building the choir sound; motivating and managing large choral forces; developing probationers' vocal/musical skills; how choirs without choir schools flourish and achieve success); observing workshops - and not just of church or organ music.

[Miles Coverdale]

These difficulties already exist in places that don't have choir schools by the way and they have to find ways to live with them.VCC

I'm well aware of that, but I can't think of a cathedral that doesn't have an associated school and maintains a routine of daily Evensong (by which I mean six or more services a week).

[subcontrabass]

I'm well aware of that, but I can't think of a cathedral that doesn't have an associated school and maintains a routine of daily Evensong (by which I mean six or more services a week).

Carlisle? St Albans?

[Lizzie]

Carlisle? St Albans?

Liverpool...

[Miles Coverdale]

I should have been more specific. I meant with one top line, not two.

[bach736]

Or, to put it another way: if you wish to discuss how DOMs might recruit new boy choristers, or why this is so important, start a thread on that subject.

Perhaps we could call it 'Groundhog Day'.

To those who profoundly disagree with the old codgers on this thread, I should point out that you are the architects of your own, and everyone else's, tedious misfortune. Don't dignify their postings with a response - it just lends fuel to the flames.
And don't fight battles you can't win, then we can all rest in peace.

Cue audio : 'The Last Post'

[Magnificat]

I should have been more specific. I meant with one top line, not two.

MC

St Albans has long had a reputation for being one of the busiest cathedrals. The boys manage five Evensongs a week plus Sunday Matins or Eucharist and occasionally the Parish Eucharist on Sundays making three services altogether on Sundays on those occasions. Late evening Eucharists replace Evensong on some Feasr days. Much more than the boys at some cathedrals with choir schools! Certainly having a girls' choir ( which sings Evensong on Wednesdays and Fridays - previously dumb days ) helps to relieve the pressure when necessary and this is a welcome development.

VCC

[Magnificat]

[QUOTE=bach736;175651]Perhaps we could call it 'Groundhog Day'.

To those who profoundly disagree with the old codgers on this thread, I should point out that you are the architects of your own, and everyone else's, tedious misfortune. Don't dignify their postings with a response - it just lends fuel to the flames.
And don't fight battles you can't win, then we can all rest in peace.

bach 736

Not that old!

If we only ever comment on the music we hear as french frank would apparently like us to do I can see these threads becoming very boring indeed. Yes, they can get out of hand when passions are inflamed but they, in my opinion, are a lot more interesting as a result. french frank was right to insist previously that we don't make personal attacks on people's abilities but there is nothing wrong in general views on whatever matters are of interest to each of us even if they are tedious to others.

VCC

[paul duggan2]

[QUOTE=Magnificat;175661]

Perhaps we could call it 'Groundhog Day'.

To those who profoundly disagree with the old codgers on this thread, I should point out that you are the architects of your own, and everyone else's, tedious misfortune. Don't dignify their postings with a response - it just lends fuel to the flames.
And don't fight battles you can't win, then we can all rest in peace.

bach 736

Not that old!

If we only ever comment on the music we hear as french frank would apparently like us to do I can see these threads becoming very boring indeed. Yes, they can get out of hand when passions are inflamed but they, in my opinion, are a lot more interesting as a result. french frank was right to insist previously that we don't make personal attacks on people's abilities but there is nothing wrong in general views on whatever matters are of interest to each of us even if they are tedious to others.

VCC

..like calling for a cathedral organist to be sacked..

[DracoM]

Look, have we not had enough of this endless round and round tired sniping?

There IS a very interesting debate to be had on this topic - of course there is, and has been one very long running one for some 50 odd years in the cathedral world - but currently what we have on this thread is NOT a considered debate, well, not much of one, but jeering and mud-throwing.

Very, very sad.

If you want to debate this, as FF said, please start a totally new thread. It is a great shame that York's praiseworthy CE has more or less got completely drowned out by the noise.

[paul duggan2]

Look, have we not had enough of this endless round and round tired sniping?

There IS a very interesting debate to be had on this topic - of course there is, and has been one very long running one for some 50 odd years in the cathedral world - but currently what we have on this thread is NOT a considered debate, well, not much of one, but jeering and mud-throwing.

Very, very sad.

If you want to debate this, as FF said, please start a totally new thread. It is a great shame that York's praiseworthy CE has more or less got completely drowned out by the noise.

Go for it Stuart..

[Vile Consort]

nytseiyork.
The discussion which stemmed from not being told which singers were providing our enjoyment has not been about boys versus girls it has simply been about the importance of and ways of ensuring that boys continue to sing in our cathedral choirs. I am sorry you find this tedious.

VCC

If you can't actually hear the difference, aren't you in much the same position as the CAMRA beer expert I once knew who had failed to notice - over quite a considerable period - that his local pub was selling mild and bitter from the same barrel?

[Magnificat]

[QUOTE=paul duggan2;175676]

..like calling for a cathedral organist to be sacked..

I have never called for a particular cathedral DoM to be sacked. But if a cathedral runs a boys choir then, generally and on the face of it, if a DoM fails to recruit enough boys he is not doing his job and anyone else not doing his job would no doubt be sacked so why should a cathedral organist not be sacked in these circumstances. At the very least he would have to persuade the Dean and Chapter that he has done everything possible to attract them but it appears that boys do not want to sing in cathedral choirs anymore.

VCC

[Magnificat]

If you can't actually hear the difference, aren't you in much the same position as the CAMRA beer expert I once knew who had failed to notice - over quite a considerable period - that his local pub was selling mild and bitter from the same barrel?

Very funny Vile Consort but it is a fact that it is difficult sometimes to tell the difference between the sound of boys and girls voices.

But honestly, why is it not possible in any of these CE broadcasts for the BBC not to put everyone completely in the picture by announcing, in the case of this particular transmission, - Choral evensong today is from York Minster and will be sung by the girls and men of the cathedral choir?

VCC