Doonelm

[Guest]

[Edited]

[DracoM]

Crumbs! Bit strong, D-D?

[french frank]

I have temporarily removed four posts on this thread while I consider them further.

If you are going to publicly name individuals and state that they are not capable of doing a good professional job, may I suggest that you sign your own name on the bottom of your post. This is not a matter of whether what you say is accurate or not, but I don't think this is a proper forum for such comments to be made. The internet is a very public place.

[Old Grumpy]

I have temporarily removed four posts on this thread while I consider them further.

If you are going to publicly name individuals and state that they are not capable of doing a good professional job, may I suggest that you sign your own name on the bottom of your post. This is not a matter of whether what you say is accurate or not, but I don't think this is a proper forum for such comments to be made. The internet is a very public place.

I personally would consider that action entirely appropriate in view of the content of said posts.

[DracoM]

It is very rare and entirely regrettable that such personal animus should be injected into postings to this Forum, and certainly to The Choir.
There is no room for such on The Radio 3 Forum.

[Double Diapason]

I have temporarily removed four posts on this thread while I consider them further.

If you are going to publicly name individuals and state that they are not capable of doing a good professional job, may I suggest that you sign your own name on the bottom of your post. This is not a matter of whether what you say is accurate or not, but I don't think this is a proper forum for such comments to be made. The internet is a very public place.

Dear FF

The argument about using real names has been made (at length) before on this forum (and others). The fundamental point is of course that everyone uses pseudonyms and that is the way it works........and what is the point of me signing my real name, what's the point? Does it suddenly make the point being made carry more/less weight? Will everyone be googleing me to see if I am likely to know what I am talking about? I can save you the bother - google will tell you very little except I have been an active church musician for about 20 years. That information is irrelevant anyway. I base my opinion on what I know and the ears in my head..........

I don't think I said that JL was unprofessional - I know he is! As my words have been removed I cant quote directly but I think I mentioned personality. My opinion is based on meeting him (once) and my friend's comments - has sang there for 3 years.

Taz said it wasn't fair to compare Durham & Winchester and I agree. I didn't. It IS fair to compare Durham and York though and it is universally recognised that York have a better choir now than they did under their previous DoM. I would never suggest that Robert Sharpe is any more or less professional than Philip Moore but the choir is better - again a universal opinion - I know someone who sang under both men at York. The reason the choir is better under RS? Personality, charisma and the ability to manage people to want to do better than before. Secondary is the technical stuff and the level of "professionalism" I believe. RS is unusual in that he has all these qualities in spades - he is exceptional!

Finally I know that one mans meat is anothers poison so we will never all agree. This forum (and all the others) are there for us all to share our opinions and thats what I have done. Apologies if my plain language offended anyone.

ps will you confirm if your temporary removal will be either reversed or be made permanent?

Thanks

DD

[Double Diapason]

Should have said, I didn't see any of the other removed posts but I seem to be regarded as being the most offensive so thought I should respond!

[Lizzie]

Dear FF

The argument about using real names has been made (at length) before on this forum (and others). The fundamental point is of course that everyone uses pseudonyms and that is the way it works........and what is the point of me signing my real name, what's the point? Does it suddenly make the point being made carry more/less weight? Will everyone be googleing me to see if I am likely to know what I am talking about? I can save you the bother - google will tell you very little except I have been an active church musician for about 20 years. That information is irrelevant anyway. I base my opinion on what I know and the ears in my head..........

I don't think I said that JL was unprofessional - I know he is! As my words have been removed I cant quote directly but I think I mentioned personality. My opinion is based on meeting him (once) and my friend's comments - has sang there for 3 years.

Taz said it wasn't fair to compare Durham & Winchester and I agree. I didn't. It IS fair to compare Durham and York though and it is universally recognised that York have a better choir now than they did under their previous DoM. I would never suggest that Robert Sharpe is any more or less professional than Philip Moore but the choir is better - again a universal opinion - I know someone who sang under both men at York. The reason the choir is better under RS? Personality, charisma and the ability to manage people to want to do better than before. Secondary is the technical stuff and the level of "professionalism" I believe. RS is unusual in that he has all these qualities in spades - he is exceptional!

Finally I know that one mans meat is anothers poison so we will never all agree. This forum (and all the others) are there for us all to share our opinions and thats what I have done. Apologies if my plain language offended anyone.

ps will you confirm if your temporary removal will be either reversed or be made permanent?

Thanks

DD

I suppose part of this might revolve around the concept that, if one is prepared to make a comment - complimentary or less so - on a worldwide forum, one should also perhaps be prepared to stand by those comments openly by name. Otherwise, it seems to me that the person(s) being commented upon has a less equal right of reply. Ie, why should one Wish to say something anonymously that one would not be equally prepared to say to that person directly?

Indeed, might there not also be a legal concern concerning the libel laws should a person thus commented upon choose to pursue it?

Best ws to all for a pleasant weekend of wonderful liturgical music. Liz (Farnell)

[Magnificat]

I have temporarily removed four posts on this thread while I consider them further.

If you are going to publicly name individuals and state that they are not capable of doing a good professional job, may I suggest that you sign your own name on the bottom of your post. This is not a matter of whether what you say is accurate or not, but I don't think this is a proper forum for such comments to be made. The internet is a very public place.

FF

Sorry, but why can I not say that I think a DoM is a poor choirtrainer. It is only my opinion. If others think he is a great choirtrainer then they are entitled to their opinion. The evidence from recent years' broadcasts from Durham support DD's views again in my opinion.

If I rephrased my comment and said that I thought the singing from Durham on Wednesday was appalling this would seem to fit in with your policy but how is it, in essence, any different to referring to the ability of the DoM whose identity would be obvious to any interested party.

The DoM is of course always named in the BBC schedules which are available on the internet for all to see as a matter of course.

VCC

VCC

[french frank]

ps will you confirm if your temporary removal will be either reversed or be made permanent?

My inclination is to leave things as they are, i.e. for the deletions to remain.

I've explained behind the scenes that my main concern is for the forum. It's one of those things about online forums that they get characterised on the basis of what individuals post. It's not you (whoever you may be) who is associated with the comments, but the forum.

If Dr Bilbo Ponsonby-Baggins, Dean of the Cathedral of the Holy and Undivided Trinity, Hobbitchester, posts something here, his comments are seen to be his alone. He Said That. If a (if I may be permitted ) 'gaggle' of pseudonymous posters post such comments they are attributed by outsiders, vaguely, to the forum because it is the only identifiable source they have. If there is any comeback (and I don't mean, specifically, legal action), it is to us. 'Those people on that forum...'

My view is this: that is perfectly all right to criticise, in more or less whatever terms you like, a performance related to Choral Evensong. Say it was a shambles, a disgrace, a thoroughly unprofessional performance, if that's what you thought. Battle it out with those who disagree.

But we move into a different sphere when it comes to discussing the professional careers of individuals. We've had it before when the subject of vacancies has come up: who may apply, who would be good candidates, who would be likely to get it and for what reason, who shouldn't be touched with a bargepole. Discuss this down at the pub if you like, but not here.

What is said here goes, literally, all round the world. Within minutes what you say here can be accessed by anyone searching the internet. That means that, for me, there is a great responsibility for what is published on the forum and it should not be used for any sort of private advocacy. People can set up their own blogs for that.

[Magnificat]

My inclination is to leave things as they are, i.e. for the deletions to remain.


But we move into a different sphere when it comes to discussing the professional careers of individuals. We've had it before when the subject of vacancies has come up: who may apply, who would be good candidates, who would be likely to get it and for what reason, who shouldn't be touched with a bargepole. Discuss this down at the pub if you like, but not here.

Absolute tosh.

VCC

[french frank]

Absolute tosh.

You are allowed to say that!

[Magnificat]

FF

Let's gt one thing completely clear.

Opinion and fair comment are not libellous full stop.

VCC

[Double Diapason]

FF

Let's gt one thing completely clear.

Opinion and fair comment are not libellous full stop.

VCC

Hear, hear!

[Lizzie]

Then one should be equally ready to back those 'valid' opinions with one's name, ie to stand up and be counted. That seems to me to be the honourable and sometimes, courageous thing to do. Perhaps I'm just a bit old-fashioned about such things but, it was what I was taught by my parents and teachers throughout life and it's stood me in good stead for all there years. Best as always. Liz