The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

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  • Bryn
    Banned
    • Mar 2007
    • 24688

    Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
    Slippery merchants ?
    Had you been at the British Library on the evening of 9 July this year you would know I very much remain a member of that disorganisation.

    Comment

    • MrGongGong
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 18357

      Originally posted by Bryn View Post
      Had you been at the British Library on the evening of 9 July this year you would know I very much remain a member of that disorganisation.

      Comment

      • Dave2002
        Full Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 18025

        Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
        Acton is so quotable - which pertick'ler quote did you have in mind - any of the following?


        The most certain test by which we judge whether a country is really free is the amount of security enjoyed by minorities.

        And remember, where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that.


        .
        Most of the quotes seem to have application (I didn't know many of these), though does the second quote here refer now to BJ and the ERG?

        Comment

        • Bryn
          Banned
          • Mar 2007
          • 24688

          Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
          Acton is so quotable - which pertick'ler quote did you have in mind - any of the following?

          Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

          The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern.

          History is not a burden on the memory but an illumination of the soul.

          Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.

          The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks.

          The most certain test by which we judge whether a country is really free is the amount of security enjoyed by minorities.

          And remember, where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that.

          Liberty is not the power of doing what we like, but the right to do what we ought.

          Every thing secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity.


          .
          The second. Surely the most clearly applicable to the situation, and the most often misquoted.

          Comment

          • Boilk
            Full Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 976

            Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
            Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
            That famous quote is almost never heard or printed in full, which is:

            Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they
            exercise influence and not authority; still more when you superadd the tendency of the certainty of corruption by authority.

            Comment

            • CGR
              Full Member
              • Aug 2016
              • 370

              Originally posted by Bryn View Post
              Interesting. Of the five listed by CGR, only three had any part to play in attempting to establish socialism, having fought to depose the previous part capitalist, part tribute-paying economies they were faced with. Of those three, only two, Stalin and Mao, were able to spend more than a very few years struggling to build a socialist society in the states they had control over, and those two faced massive international capitalist (imperialist) barriers in their ultimately failed attempts. Lenin did not live long enough to get beyond the initial stage of the task of transforming the Soviet Union into a socialist society. I think we have to bare Lord Acton's famous dictum into consideration when criticising those who actually took on the responsibility of trying to transform their devastated economies towards a socialist form.
              And then, of course, there is National Socialism. A form of socialism that didn't kill as many as the socialism of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc., but that was only because we managed to stop it by 1945.

              Comment

              • Dave2002
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 18025

                I didn't know very much about Lord Acton - apart from one or two of the most famous quotations - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D...st_Baron_Acton

                Here are some more quotes - https://www.azquotes.com/author/66-Lord_Acton
                The link includes the following:

                Socialism means slavery.

                The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections.

                Authority that does not exist for Liberty is not authority but force


                There is one I don't fully understand, perhaps because I don't know the context in which it was said/written -

                Federalism is the best curb on democracy. [It] assigns limited powers to the central government. Thereby all power is limited. It excludes absolute power of the majority.

                Comment

                • Joseph K
                  Banned
                  • Oct 2017
                  • 7765

                  Originally posted by CGR View Post
                  And then, of course, there is National Socialism. A form of socialism that didn't kill as many as the socialism of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc., but that was only because we managed to stop it by 1945.
                  Ah yes. 1945 - the year we voted for Clement Attlee's Labour Party.

                  Comment

                  • MrGongGong
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 18357

                    Originally posted by CGR View Post
                    And then, of course, there is National Socialism. A form of socialism that didn't kill as many as the socialism of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc., but that was only because we managed to stop it by 1945.
                    Do you think that "vegan cheese" is really cheese ?
                    or that JRM is really a Christian ?

                    Thanks for "stopping it" though
                    but I do wonder who is this "we" of which you speak ?

                    This self identity thing really has to stop

                    Comment

                    • Richard Barrett
                      Guest
                      • Jan 2016
                      • 6259

                      Originally posted by CGR View Post
                      National Socialism. A form of socialism
                      In what sense?

                      Comment

                      • MrGongGong
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 18357

                        Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
                        In what sense?
                        It's 50% "Socialism"
                        in the same way that a Minotaur is 50% man, 50% bull

                        but I suspect it's really 100% Bull

                        Comment

                        • John Locke

                          Originally posted by CGR View Post
                          National Socialism. A form of socialism …
                          People bring their own baggage to their interpretation of terms (compare the American with the British use of the term 'liberal'), don't they ? Are you a One-Nation Conservative or a New Right Conservative? Different groups, particularly in planning for power, can adopt their own add-ons which take them further and further from their source. Equating socialism with Nazism is, as one might say, jesuitical.

                          Comment

                          • Conchis
                            Banned
                            • Jun 2014
                            • 2396

                            Cummings would appear to be a eugenicist, and perhaps a rather ingenious one.

                            He is using the ‘righteous ire’ of the sans-culottes to bring about a cultural change that might eliminate such people from the gene pool.

                            Does he dream of a future Britain populated by blonde Ubermensch - a bit like his boss, but a lot better looking and without the permanent spare tyre round the waist?

                            Cummings himself looks like an aborted tadpole, so I’m not sure he’d match the beauty quota for his own new order.

                            Comment

                            • ahinton
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 16123

                              Originally posted by Conchis View Post
                              Cummings himself looks like an aborted tadpole, so I’m not sure he’d match the beauty quota for his own new order.
                              Nor did Hitler, though...

                              Comment

                              • CGR
                                Full Member
                                • Aug 2016
                                • 370

                                Originally posted by Conchis View Post
                                Cummings would appear to be a eugenicist, and perhaps a rather ingenious one.

                                He is using the ‘righteous ire’ of the sans-culottes to bring about a cultural change that might eliminate such people from the gene pool.

                                Does he dream of a future Britain populated by blonde Ubermensch - a bit like his boss, but a lot better looking and without the permanent spare tyre round the waist?

                                Cummings himself looks like an aborted tadpole, so I’m not sure he’d match the beauty quota for his own new order.
                                Cummings and Boris seem to be doing an excellent job in very difficult circumstances.

                                Boris's robust responses to the baying mob of Labour MPs the other evening was a wonder to behold. He dominated the House of Commons in a way not seen since Maggie Thatcher was PM.

                                Comment

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