The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

[teamsaint]

The reason that the name Thatcher comes up in political debate is because she ( and Reagan , Keith Joseph , the propnents of monetarism etc) set the political direction of the last 40 years.

And we see it all in action to this day.

[Joseph K]

And the overthrow of the Etonariat dictatorship leads to …?

Why, libertarian-communism of course.

Read Homage to Catalonia.

[Richard Barrett]

I'm not too keen on telling other people what to do

I asked if you had suggestions (or knew anyone who did), not orders! Your contribution to this discussion seems to revolve mostly around rubbishing any ideas that others come up with and not coming up with any of your own, which is indeed a bit defeatist I think.

Increased productivity (per person) is a way of giving people more of their own time (so that for example) they can choose whether to grow potatoes or to buy them.

[Richard Tarleton]

Why, libertarian-communism of course.

Read Homage to Catalonia.

And for one who has - please can you refresh my memory, Joseph?

[teamsaint]

In a world where technology may lead to a reduction in the amount of labour needed ( ever heard that before ?) Universal basic income might be a really important tool in allowing us all to lead more fulfilling, productive, and also economically useful lives. It would allow us to invest, at less risk, in our own skills and passions. It would allow us set a tempo for our working lives ( breaks for family, travel, change of direction, retraining , volunteering, education whatever).
But I don't think lots of politicians want this. and of course it might help people to really contribute to dealing with pollution issues.

[Richard Barrett]

In a world where technology may lead to a reduction in the amount of labour needed ( ever heard that before ?) Universal basic income might be a really important tool in allowing us all to lead more fulfilling, productive, and also economically useful lives. It would allow us to invest, at less risk, in our own skills and passions. It would allow us set a tempo for our working lives ( breaks for family, travel, change of direction, retraining , volunteering, education whatever).
But I don't think lots of politicians want this. and of course it might help people to really contribute to dealing with pollution issues.

Exactly.

[Bella Kemp]

And for one who has - please can you refresh my memory, Joseph?

As George Eliot once said, 'Knowledge slowly builds up what ignorance in an hour brings down.'
It does seem that Momentum Labour has created in its adherents such a fervour of urgency that some feel there just isn't time to pause and think. Never a day goes past when I don't reflect that had Mr Milliband not paved the way for Mr Corbyn we would have a Labour government now and Brexit would never have happened (because a Real Labour leader would have campaigned for Europe, unlike Mr C. with his barely-disguised hostility).
Many on here have been kind enough to offer links to sites that offer a corrective to the News that we are offered. It's only fair, then, to be reminded of the system that has kept the majority of us fed and housed and in employment: https://www.capitalism.org/

[John Locke]

Why, libertarian-communism of course.

I thought it was supposed to be Stalinism

[Richard Barrett]

It's only fair, then, to be reminded of the system that has kept the majority of us fed and housed and in employment: https://www.capitalism.org/

Are you serious, Bella? Ayn Rand???

[Bryn]

I thought it was supposed to be Stalinism

I find it more than a little difficult to see Mr Jones of Manor Farm as a representative of the Etonariat. This leads me to wonder just how familiar you are with Eric's work. Oh, how I recall with a broad smile the Week Ending skit on Eric's familial namesake's book about Manor Farm's takeover and the consequent transformation of the leaders of that takeover.

[John Locke]

I find it more than a little difficult to see Mr Jones of Manor Farm as a representative of the Etonariat. This leads me to wonder just how familiar you are with Eric's work. Oh, how I recall with a broad smile the Week Ending skit on Eric's familial namesake's book about Manor Farm's takeover and the consequent transformation of the leaders of that takeover.

No, not a direct parallel. Mr Jones was overthrown in the '1917 revolution', the point of Eric's work being that the overthrow of one dictatorship led to the establishment of another.

[Joseph K]

As George Eliot once said, 'Knowledge slowly builds up what ignorance in an hour brings down.'
It does seem that Momentum Labour has created in its adherents such a fervour of urgency that some feel there just isn't time to pause and think. Never a day goes past when I don't reflect that had Mr Milliband not paved the way for Mr Corbyn we would have a Labour government now and Brexit would never have happened (because a Real Labour leader would have campaigned for Europe, unlike Mr C. with his barely-disguised hostility).
Many on here have been kind enough to offer links to sites that offer a corrective to the News that we are offered. It's only fair, then, to be reminded of the system that has kept the majority of us fed and housed and in employment: https://www.capitalism.org/

If you were working 12 hours a day in a sweat shop for a pittance I'm sure you'd be singing capitalism's praises.

In truth the things we value and take for granted now like weekends, paid maternity leave, maximum working hours, minimum wage, workplace safety etc. have all been fought for by the Labour movement.

In truth capitalism (as I said before in this thread but it doesn't appear to be getting through to you) is a system that will possibly see the end of civilisation as we know it, perhaps our extinction, unless we take drastic steps to curb carbon emissions and create a green, socialist economy. Do you not see that a system that relies for its reproduction on endless compound growth is unsustainable on this finite planet of ours?

[MrGongGong]

Are you serious, Bella? Ayn Rand???

Nurse, the screens

Ayn Rand seems to be very popular with certain "members" of the ruling party these days

[Richard Tarleton]

Why, libertarian-communism of course.

Read Homage to Catalonia.

And for one who has - please can you refresh my memory, Joseph?

I thought it was supposed to be Stalinism

Joseph, I only asked because I wondered what message you drew from Homage to Catalonia - I couldn't see why you had cited it. George Orwell went to Spain to fight Fascism, but the organisation he fought with, the broadly Trotskyist POUM, ended up being persecuted by the mainstream Stalinist forces who came to control the forces of the left - as he wrote to Victor Gollancz in 1937, Owing partly to an accident I joined the P.O.U.M. militia instead of the International Brigade, which was a pity in one way because it meant I have never seen the Madrid front; on the other hand it has brought me into contact with Spaniards rather than Englishmen & especially with genuine revolutionaries. I hope I shall get a chance to write the truth about what I have seen. The stuff appearing in the English papers is largely the most appalling lies – more I can’t say, owing to the censorship. If I can get back in August I hope to have a book ready for you about the beginning of next year.

In the event, of course, Orwell's narrative was so disturbing and contrary to the received narrative of the Civil War on the left in England that Gollancz refused to publish it, and it ended up being published by Secker and Warburg.

Anyway, I logged off as it was heading for bedtime, late night disputations keep me awake and you didn't respond anyway, so there we are. Still curious, though.

[Bella Kemp]

If you were working 12 hours a day in a sweat shop for a pittance I'm sure you'd be singing capitalism's praises.

In truth the things we value and take for granted now like weekends, paid maternity leave, maximum working hours, minimum wage, workplace safety etc. have all been fought for by the Labour movement.

In truth capitalism (as I said before in this thread but it doesn't appear to be getting through to you) is a system that will possibly see the end of civilisation as we know it, perhaps our extinction, unless we take drastic steps to curb carbon emissions and create a green, socialist economy. Do you not see that a system that relies for its reproduction on endless compound growth is unsustainable on this finite planet of ours?

I think you and I agree on most things Joseph K - and your very name suggests that you are as opposed to the super state power that socialism brings as I am. We need a balance. Both pure socialism and pure capitalism are very great evils, but when both are combined and watered-down (as they are to a certain extent in some Scandinavian countries) then society makes progress.