The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

[cloughie]

Symphony of ten thousand perhaps!

Mahler’s 80th.

[MrGongGong]

Most people indeed have to sell their labour in order to survive, to the profit of the "nasty bosses". That isn't an assumption, it's a well established fact. Of course all those relationships need to be rethought. There is already less work to do than there used to be, and there will be a lot less in the future, but employment/unemployment is used increasingly ruthlessly as a way to control people's lives as wealth is concentrated in an ever smaller proportion of the population. The universal basic income concept is only a start.

Indeed
BUT , given the history and the attachment to the whole historical narrative I don't think any of this rethinking is likely to come from the Labour party

[Richard Barrett]

I don't think any of this rethinking is likely to come from the Labour party

Maybe, maybe not. Committing to a four-day working week might be a start, don't you think?

[Bella Kemp]

Maybe, maybe not. Committing to a four-day working week might be a start, don't you think?

Sounds a great idea, but with productivity thus reduced how will the Labour party fund all their other handouts? - not to mention the workers' pension funds (that rely on capitalism to make them grow.) Of course one may respond that they're going to tax the rich etc., but these things have never worked in all the myriad socialist states the world has seen since 1917 and they won't work now.

[johncorrigan]

Apologies if it's already been posted.

https://youtu.be/W0pTpwqkB48

[MrGongGong]

Maybe, maybe not. Committing to a four-day working week might be a start, don't you think?

Depends on who you are talking about.
It does seem stuck in the old way of thinking about work IMV
if we really ARE going to have big changes then maybe a bit more imagination would be useful ?
The sad thing is that the people who really do work hard at difficult, dangerous or vital jobs won't really benefit much.

[MrGongGong]

Apologies if it's already been posted.
https://youtu.be/W0pTpwqkB48

This one fits (again .... sorry)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waJLv46_N6c&frags=pl%2Cwn

[Richard Barrett]

with productivity thus reduced

The point is, I think, that there's no need for productivity to be reduced, as was found in this study in New Zealand.

[Richard Barrett]

if we really ARE going to have big changes then maybe a bit more imagination would be useful ?

So, do you have any suggestions or do you know of anyone who does? Or is defeatism all you have to offer?

[teamsaint]

Sounds a great idea, but with productivity thus reduced how will the Labour party fund all their other handouts? - not to mention the workers' pension funds (that rely on capitalism to make them grow.) Of course one may respond that they're going to tax the rich etc., but these things have never worked in all the myriad socialist states the world has seen since 1917 and they won't work now.

The British apparently work some of the longest hours in Europe, and apparently have lower productivity than similar European economies. But nobody has yet managed convincingly to explain why we have this supposed productivity gap.indeed, as RBs link shows, presenteeism may be partially to blame.

But what we do have is an ever increasing wealth and income gap, the wealthiest pensioners we have ever had, very low corporation taxes, high corporate profits etc etc.

It is always todays working people ( and those unable to work) having to put their hands in their pockets, or seeing their hoped for retirements disappearing into the future,or having to pay more and more to help their kids avoid a massively debt laden future.

And it ******* stinks. It isn’t just 20 somethings thst are mad at it all. Lots of 30/40/50 somethings too. So , personally speaking, I can do without the Thatcherite rhetoric.

[MrGongGong]

So, do you have any suggestions or do you know of anyone who does? Or is defeatism all you have to offer?

I'm not too keen on telling other people what to do
and since the whole working hours thing doesn't really apply to me (or you ?) then i'm not sure that my idea of how other people should live their lives is relevant.
Not defeatism


Why is increased "productivity" always seen as a good thing?
Part of today involved going through the potatoes we dug up and making things to freeze out of the worm eaten or damged ones.
Much cheaper to buy them in the shop.

[Bella Kemp]

It is a truth universally acknowledged that in any political debate the names of either Hitler or Thatcher will be invoked - and that's been done a few times here already. So putting that to one side, I have also to admit that I'm not at all keen on this increased productivity thing: the world's already clogged up with too much disposable stuff disposed of in our seas and rivers. But I just can't see how the Labour party's plans can work out unless they can also find the means to make the money to pay for them. Socialism just doesn't make enough money to fulfil its promises - that's not cynicism it's merely looking at the record of all the failed socialist states. Why do these socialists always seem to think that they've got to promise utopia? If I were at the Momentum Labour conference I'd be standing at the door handing out copies of Animal Farm.

[Joseph K]

If I were at the Momentum Labour conference I'd be standing at the door handing out copies of Animal Farm.

… written by the well-known democratic socialist George Orwell...

[MrGongGong]

It is a truth universally acknowledged.

erm
Not really
I think you might be over egging things somewhat

[John Locke]

… written by the well-known democratic socialist George Orwell...

And the overthrow of the Etonariat dictatorship leads to …?