The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

[Richard Barrett]

Yes - John Hurt's expression as he realised the citizenry / the mob, had turned against him...

I don't think "Boris" has reached that realisation yet - his education inoculated him from taking any notice of the citizenry. He "profoundly disagrees" with the unanimous verdict of the Supreme Court! - well, I could have profoundly disagreed with my last parking ticket but I still had to pay it.

[MrGongGong]

Thomas Cook reportedly needed £200m, doesn't seem very much in the great scheme of things if it could have saved 9,000 jobs. Odd that the German govt and the State of Hesse found 380million euros to save Condor, TC's German subsidiary.
I really don't understand why Labour haven't seized on this, or have I missed it in the Supreme Court hubbub.

I thought the Labour party did say things about this ?

If I f*ck up my work by not anticipating what is likely to come in the future (and I know a few HE institutions who have been recently "surprised" by the number of students applying to study music, it's been a HUGE secret that music education has been in engineered decline, I know ) can I get a future Labour government to bail me out as well ?

asking for a friend

Surely it's part of the Labour party's enthusiasm for environmental concerns to ensure that companies like TC go out of business anyway ? All those air miles and unnecessary flights

[Richard Barrett]

If I f*ck up my work by not anticipating what is likely to come in the future (and I know a few HE institutions who have been recently "suprised" by the number of students applying to study music, it's been a HUGE secret that music education has been in engineered decline, I know ) can I get a future Labour government to bail me out as well ?

That might depend on how many thousands of employees you give jobs to.

[MrGongGong]

That might depend on how many thousands of employees you give jobs to.

Jobs or the environment ?

(I know, i'm going to Australia on Saturday for a week.... it's a fair cop guv )

[Bryn]

Jobs or the environment ?

(I know, i'm going to Australia on Saturday for a week.... it's a fair cop guv )

Blimey! That's fast sailing.

[Richard Barrett]

Surely it's part of the Labour party's enthusiasm for environmental concerns to ensure that companies like TC go out of business anyway ? All those air miles and unnecessary flights

Depriving people of their livelihoods from one day to the next isn't exactly environmentally responsible, is it? Yes of course there's a serious point here, about what happens to people in industries that contribute the most to climate change, but air transport contributes 1.7% to total CO2 production compared with 10.5% by road transport and 11.3% by deforestation. A longer term plan that committed to reducing emissions would have to redistribute wealth so that working hours can be reduced and unnecessarily polluting activities shut down.

[MrGongGong]

Depriving people of their livelihoods from one day to the next isn't exactly environmentally responsible, is it? Yes of course there's a serious point here, about what happens to people in industries that contribute the most to climate change, but air transport contributes 1.7% to total CO2 production compared with 10.5% by road transport and 11.3% by deforestation. A longer term plan that committed to reducing emissions would have to redistribute wealth so that working hours can be reduced and unnecessarily polluting activities shut down.

Indeed

Are you going to reduce your working hours ?
Personally i'm increasing mine as i've got a commission to work on and it's likely to absorb hours and hours
Maybe the whole idea of what we mean by "working hours" and "work" is also in need of an examination ?

[Bryn]

Indeed

Are you going to reduce your working hours ?
Personally i'm increasing mine as i've got a commission to work on and it's likely to absorb hours and hours
Maybe the whole idea of what we mean by "working hours" and "work" is also in need of an examination ?

Having worked for a couple of decades in a role governed by working hours legislation aimed at protecting the health and safety of both employees and those they served, I take exception to the use of suggestions of reduction of working hours as a cheap debating point. The context of Mr. Barrett's reference to the reduction of working hours clearly related to those whose working hours were controlled by others, not the hours worked by those in control of their own working.

[MrGongGong]

Having worked for a couple of decades in a role governed by working hours legislation aimed at protecting the health and safety of both employees and those they served, I take exception to the use of suggestions of reduction of working hours as a cheap debating point. The context of Mr. Barrett's reference to the reduction of working hours clearly related to those whose working hours were controlled by others, not the hours worked by those in control of their own working.

Point taken
and I DO think that there are many people who do need their working hours tightly controlled
but when I hear talk about this from many on the "left" it's always assumed that the "workers" are in the employment of the nasty "bosses"
maybe it IS time for a rethink of how things work on a more fundamental level?

I've just had a project cancelled next year because the head of a school won't allow the head of music to go to a meeting or take their students to a concert. What sort of way is that to manage anything ?

[Bryn]

Point taken
and I DO think that there are many people who do need their working hours tightly controlled
but when I hear talk about this from many on the "left" it's always assumed that the "workers" are in the employment of the nasty "bosses"
maybe it IS time for a rethink of how things work on a more fundamental level?

I've just had a project cancelled next year because the head of a school won't allow the head of music to go to a meeting or take their students to a concert. What sort of way is that to manage anything ?

I empathise with your situation. It puts me in mind of the disgust I felt when hearing a Tory politician attack school student who participated in climate change activity, rather than attending school. This from an elected representative of a political party whose withholding of the necessary funding from education has led to many schools having to end their teaching weeks at Friday lunchtime. That is 19½ days teaching a year lost to pupils.

[LHC]

Thomas Cook reportedly needed £200m, doesn't seem very much in the great scheme of things if it could have saved 9,000 jobs. Odd that the German govt and the State of Hesse found 380million euros to save Condor, TC's German subsidiary.
I really don't understand why Labour haven't seized on this, or have I missed it in the Supreme Court hubbub.

Thomas Cook has debts of nearly £2bn, and had already had an injection of £300m a few months ago. £200m would have kept it going for a couple of months, at which point it would have failed again. It would have needed much more money to address its failing business model and start to reduce its debts. The suggestion that £200m would have saved TC and its workers’ jobs is wrong.

[Bryn]

Thomas Cook has debts of nearly £2bn, and had already had an injunction of £300m a few months ago. £200m would have kept it going for a couple of months, at which point it would have failed again. It would have needed much more money to address its failing business model and start to reduce its debts. The suggestion that £200m would have saved TC and its workers’ jobs is wrong.

I take it the "injunction" was either a typo or an auto-correct failure for "injection".

[Richard Barrett]

but when I hear talk about this from many on the "left" it's always assumed that the "workers" are in the employment of the nasty "bosses"
maybe it IS time for a rethink of how things work on a more fundamental level?

Most people indeed have to sell their labour in order to survive, to the profit of the "nasty bosses". That isn't an assumption, it's a well established fact. Of course all those relationships need to be rethought. There is already less work to do than there used to be, and there will be a lot less in the future, but employment/unemployment is used increasingly ruthlessly as a way to control people's lives as wealth is concentrated in an ever smaller proportion of the population. The universal basic income concept is only a start.

[LHC]

I take it the "injunction" was either a typo or an auto-correct failure for "injection".

Autocorrect and now corrected.

[Dave2002]

That might depend on how many thousands of employees you give jobs to.

Symphony of ten thousand perhaps!