The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

[Conchis]

How many?

It’s difficult to say because the Party foolishly opened the gates to all comers for a derisory entrance fee of a fiver, despite claims that it had a ‘robust’ method for dealing with ‘spoilers’.

As to Labour activists being to the left of the PLP, that’s always been the case, just as Tory activists have tended to be to the right of their party.

[Richard Barrett]

It’s difficult to say because the Party foolishly opened the gates to all comers for a derisory entrance fee of a fiver, despite claims that it had a ‘robust’ method for dealing with ‘spoilers’.

It is indeed difficult to say, and even more difficult, I put it to you, to claim that the result was swung by Tory entryists, given that the margin by which Corbyn won was 170 000 votes, and given that party membership continued to rise after Corbyn's election.

[teamsaint]

It is indeed difficult to say, and even more difficult, I put it to you, to claim that the result was swung by Tory entryists, given that the margin by which Corbyn won was 170 000 votes, and given that party membership continued to rise after Corbyn's election.

So for Corbyn to have lost, every tory member plus 50k friends would have had to sign up and vote for him.

So much rubbish talked about Corbyn and his extremism. Sort of understandable from the avowedly conservative, but needlessly damaging from the centre and left.

If Corbyn got to no 10, any radical edge would inevitable be blunted by the " Sir Humphrey" status quo effect. And I am still trying to figure out what is is that those on the centre and centre left objected to so strongly in the 2017 manifesto.

If Corbyn is " unelectable", when faced with Johnson and Swinson and a tory party in disarray, the blame is with those who have undermined him so consistently , and including the liberal media.

[Bryn]

So for Corbyn to have lost, every tory member plus 50k friends would have had to sign up and vote for him.

So much rubbish talked about Corbyn and his extremism. Sort of understandable from the avowedly conservative, but needlessly damaging from the centre and left.

If Corbyn got to no 10, any radical edge would inevitable be blunted by the " Sir Humphrey" status quo effect. And I am still trying to figure out what is is that those on the centre and centre left objected to so strongly in the 2017 manifesto.

If Corbyn is " unelectable", when faced with Johnson and Swinson and a tory party in disarray, the blame is with those who have undermined him so consistently , and including the liberal media.

You seem to have come off the rails there. I took the assertion regarding Tory entrists and Corbyn to be that they signed up to vote for Corbyn and thus, so the theory goes, undermine Labour's standing with the voting public in a Geberal Election.

[MrGongGong]

If Corbyn is " unelectable", when faced with Johnson and Swinson and a tory party in disarray, the blame is with those who have undermined him so consistently , and including the liberal media.

I think Corbyn is "unelectable" because of his stance on Europe
NOTHING to do with most of the policies which are far from "extreme"
the Labour party likes nothing better than to do the whole "people's front of Judea" routine , as heard on R4 this morning.

They really don't do themselves any favours.

I also don't see what is so terrible about lots of predominantly young people getting involved in something they see as a way of trying to change the world for the better ?

The Labour party's new found enthusiasm for environmentalism?

If it came to jobs in the car industry ("car industry" ? ) vs the environment then i'm not sure their green credentials will stack up.
It does seem that they are a bit "Jonny come lately" trying to hitch themselves to a popular cause.....

[Joseph K]

It’s difficult to say because the Party foolishly opened the gates to all comers for a derisory entrance fee of a fiver, despite claims that it had a ‘robust’ method for dealing with ‘spoilers’.

As to Labour activists being to the left of the PLP, that’s always been the case, just as Tory activists have tended to be to the right of their party.

Remember second time you had to pay 20 quid. And IIRC, he actually increased his number of votes.

[Richard Barrett]

It does seem that they are a bit "Jonny come lately" trying to hitch themselves to a popular cause.....

There's really no pleasing you, is there? Talk about 'the whole "people's front of Judea" routine'!

[MrGongGong]

There's really no pleasing you, is there? Talk about 'the whole "people's front of Judea" routine'!

I'm the new Dave Peacock i'll have you know

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_rYjnHNZUY&frags=pl%2Cwn

[John Locke]

I don't have any "ultramarine" knowledge. I thought it was an established fact. Is it not the reason so many MPs on the right of the party are against reselection? If you have evidence to the contrary, let's hear it.

You ask me a question which involves knowing the reasoning of a number of people whom I have not met, and whom, for all I know, you have not met either. I have therefore to answer the question truthfully with, 'I don't know. How would I? How would you?'. They may have other reasons for being against mandatory reselection in current circumstances, for example a wish to defend the Labour Party of which they have been members for decades from a nest of arriviste leftist activists in their own constituency who will crown a candidate to their liking and risk losing the constituency to the opposition. As many men, as many mindes.

Tom Watson was elected deputy leader in 2015 at the same time that Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader. Has the membership changed since then? Has Tom Watson changed since then? Or is the key to this hostility towards him simply his refusal to toe his leader's line? In other words, is the two word answer to all this turbulence, the socialist icon, Jeremy Corbyn?

[Richard Barrett]

You ask me a question which involves knowing the reasoning of a number of people whom I have not met, and whom, for all I know, you have not met either.

I don't know about you, but I don't derive all my knowledge from people I've actually met!

"A wish to defend the Labour Party of which they have been members for decades"... well, party loyalty is for cultists, I would say. A political party is only as good as its programme. But then I'm an arriviste leftist activist according to your presumed definition.

There wasn't a lot of choice in the 2015 deputy leadership election actually; i guess the feeling was there had to be a "centrist" slate in order to balance out the "extremist" leader. That hasn't worked out very well, unfortunately.

[John Locke]

I don't know about you, but I don't derive all my knowledge from people I've actually met!

Neither do I, but neither do I immerse myself in those written or otherwise recorded sources where I can read the same political views as mine or on which I have already based my views. I would fear they might display bias (reinforcing my own) and present me with 'information' through the prism of those biased opinions.

These attacks on wrecker, Blairite, right-wing Watson (just unanimously reselected in his constituency) still seem to me primarily to reflect anger at his 'disloyalty' towards the leader. If there is genuinely a need for two 'Labour Parties', a centrist one à la Wilson and a socialist one à la Foot and Corbyn, which of them should inherit the title of 'Labour Party' and its existing trappings and which should depart and form another party? Or must one destroy the other?

But then I'm an arriviste leftist activist according to your presumed definition.

What was my definition, remind me again. And I did attempt earlier to move this discussion back to the first topic: the nature and aims of the current Conservative Party.

[gurnemanz]

Popular joke in Eastern Europe. My wife grew up in the DDR. I heard it there in the 70s.

Was ist schön und was ist Scheiße?
Schön, dass es den Sozialismus gibt. Scheiße, dass es den hier gibt.

What's great and what's sh*t?
Great that socialism exists. Sh*t that it exists here.

[un barbu]

I have found this blog interesting anent Brexit. He writes very well which is a bonus.

http://fatmanonakeyboard.blogspot.com/2019/08/in-search-of-lost-coherence.html

[ahinton]

I have found this blog interesting anent Brexit. He writes very well which is a bonus.

http://fatmanonakeyboard.blogspot.co...coherence.html

Its ending "We are entering the endgame which will decide" sounds overly optimistic to me, as it is anything but a game of any kind and I cannot see and end to it, let alone a decision...

[Richard Barrett]

I have found this blog interesting anent Brexit. He writes very well which is a bonus.

His line isn't so different from a lot of the material you see in the "liberal press" though, don't you think?

Speaking of which, this article sheds light on a matter which had previously puzzled me somewhat:

The question of why Wales voted to leave the EU can in large part be answered by the number of English retired people who have moved across the border, research has found.

Despite being one of the biggest beneficiaries of EU funding, Wales voted leave by a majority of 52% to 48% in the 2016 referendum – a result that took some analysts by surprise. However, work by Danny Dorling, a professor of geography at Oxford, found that the result could in part be attributed to the influence of English voters.

“If you look at the more genuinely Welsh areas, especially the Welsh-speaking ones, they did not want to leave the EU,” Dorling told the Sunday Times. “Wales was made to look like a Brexit-supporting nation by its English settlers.”