The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

[Dave2002]

I'm not sure what you mean by the BBC's shabby treatment of Corbyn. He doesn't help himself, clearly doesn't like being interviewed (or indeed questioned) - I remember his car-crash interview with the excellent Emma Barnett, which was down to his being poorly prepared. He just isn't very good at it. Being charmless and humourless doesn't help (see also Theresa May). McDonnell comes across very well on TV. It's part of the job these days. I agree Farage has been over-exposed, but I didn't think this was down to the BBC's being pro-Brexit - is it? I never watch Question Time.

John McDonnell does indeed come across quite well on TV, but he has history which unfortunately I and others might hold against him. Some may know what I mean about this.

Mostly Corbyn seems OKish, though to say he's 100% honest would be a step too far. Maybe he self deludes, but to deny that he said "stupid w*****" in the House a few months back suggests mendacity, or perhaps short term memory loss, to me. Lip readers clearly supported the view that that was what he said, and that was certainly in accordance with my perception of the incident. All he needed to do was to apologise, rather than lie his way out of it. Still, I suppose that shows that he is a politician, after all.

[MrGongGong]

Neither do I. I got tired of QT around 1982.

No I don't think the BBC is pro-Brexit, but in the interests of ratings (presumably) they give a lot of publicity to people who are, which surely goes against their principle of impartiality. With regard to Corbyn, my personal view is that politicians oughtn't to need to be showmen (I would, rather unfashionably, prefer them to be people of integrity), and making this "part of the job" is again something the BBC might be held responsible for to a significant degree.

I also gave up on QT

BUT (and I DO think the BBC have been very biased against Corbyn ) his record on Europe (NOT his entire life, support for other things or wisely keeping well away from his fruitloop brother) doesn't inspire one with much confidence

https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/

So, to me, and many others, he really doesn't have much to recommend..... though i'd vote for the sheep in the field at the back of our house over the current lot.

[Richard Barrett]

to me, and many others, he really doesn't have much to recommend...

I guess that depends on how strongly influenced one is by the EU cult...

[MrGongGong]

I guess that depends on how strongly influenced one is by the EU cult...

I would think that developing collaboration and exchange between people would be good idea
but maybe that's allpart of the "cult' that is trying to control everything ? watch our it's going to be EU laws making the OAE play at 442 next !
What is interesting (and little worrying) is how enthusiasm for the benefits of pan-EU collaboration is now seen as some kind of extremist idea

[Richard Barrett]

I would think that developing collaboration and exchange between people would be good idea

It's a great idea. Imposing neoliberal ideology on 28 countries over the heads of their electorates is not so great though.

[ahinton]

This from Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-rudds-walkout


And this from here https://www.civilserviceworld.com/ar...ive-party-over


I would hope that the Downing St source at least was correct - although one can no longer assume that will be the case.

I read somewhere that she mentioned joining an independent Conservative party - is that what was meant by 'self-servative' in an earlier post?

No.

[MrGongGong]

It's a great idea. Imposing neoliberal ideology on 28 countries over the heads of their electorates is not so great though.

I'm quite keen on how just about everywhere I go to work with those who are often neglected by the London based government (recently it's been Possilpark in Glasgow, Middlesborough, Gainsborough, Doncaster, Dewsbury etc etc ) I see community resources that have been paid for by EU funding and initiatives. Sure, the UK government COULD do this without being in the EU but the truth is that they really won't, regardless of what party is in power. So, on balance, it's a good deal (which was also what the folks I worked with in Athens said, but what do they know ? they are only teachers and musicians)

[LMcD]

I also gave up on QT

BUT (and I DO think the BBC have been very biased against Corbyn ) his record on Europe (NOT his entire life, support for other things or wisely keeping well away from his fruitloop brother) doesn't inspire one with much confidence

https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/

So, to me, and many others, he really doesn't have much to recommend..... though i'd vote for the sheep in the field at the back of our house over the current lot.

Had he not announced that he's standing down, you could have moved to North Norfolk and voted for Norman Lamb.

[Joseph K]

Mostly Corbyn seems OKish, though to say he's 100% honest would be a step too far. Maybe he self deludes, but to deny that he said "stupid w*****" in the House a few months back suggests mendacity, or perhaps short term memory loss, to me. Lip readers clearly supported the view that that was what he said, and that was certainly in accordance with my perception of the incident. All he needed to do was to apologise, rather than lie his way out of it. Still, I suppose that shows that he is a politician, after all.

No, it quite clearly was 'stupid people'.

[Bryn]

No, it quite clearly was 'stupid people'.

Lip-readers supporting both interpretations were found at the time.

[Richard Barrett]

Lip-readers supporting both interpretations were found at the time.

Right. So why not take him at his word?

MrGG, you don't need to convince me that Remain was/is on balance the better answer to Cameron's stupid question. But not because the EU is some kind of cultural-philanthropy organisation. That's no more than peripheral to the issues that affect most people most crucially.

[MrGongGong]

Right. So why not take him at his word?

MrGG, you don't need to convince me that Remain was/is on balance the better answer to Cameron's stupid question. But not because the EU is some kind of cultural-philanthropy organisation. That's no more than peripheral to the issues that affect most people most crucially.

Indeed

BUT my point is that "most" people will be fine whatever. Many of the folks I meet and work with won't
So the whole "for the many, not the few" rings a bit hollow to me.
Capitalism really is the only game in town, living in the world as it is means making the most of it, joining in and doing what one can.
The problem I have with the "Labour leave" folks is that they really do see everything as some student Marxist debating society. Most of the ones i've met are secure in jobs, pensions, houses and the like and are as immune from the negative effects as the likes of JRM and chums.

[Bella Kemp]

Most people agree with you MrGongGong. It's simply silly to try to overturn capitalism as Mr Corbyn and his deluded followers seem to wish. As my old dad (a real Labour supporter) used to say From the dawn of time someone bought a mummy and daddy chicken at a market, sold its eggs and gradually built up a business and started to employ people thereby creating and spreading wealth. Those who support Corbyn tend to be the intelligenstia who have had no experience of the world as it is - and who may therefore escape the suffering that his politics would cause.I don't blame them for their innocence, but wish they could apply their wonderful intelligence to providing real solutions. It is an irony that should escape no-one that the Labour party, as it has now become, presents a bigger threat to a fair society than even the repulsive Tories. It is the working classes who will suffer the most under Corbyn - and hardline Corbynistas have already factored this in by denying that the working classes actually exist! We need a capitalist system to create the wealth alongside a socialism that ensures the wealth is fairly distributed. I'm not entirely persuaded by the Lib Dems yet, but they are growing in strength and seem to be the only ones who deserve the votes of those who believe passionately in a just and fair society for all.

[teamsaint]

10 years of austerity budgets
10 years of stagnant wages.
A housing crisis for the young.
National division over Europe.
Several appalling military interventions.
An unexplained productivity problem.
Disastrous underfunding of local government.
Essential services sold off , often to non uk businesses.
An infrastructure crisis UK wide.
Skyrocketing education costs for young people.

Etc etc etc.

Nothing to do with Corbyn, everything to do with Tories. Lib Dems, and Blairite policies.

Corbyn , if elected, will be the one sorting out their mess.

( Not from a member of the “ intelligentsia with no experience of the real world” , but from someone who has spent almost their whole working life at the sharp end of the real world of business)

[DracoM]

The PM is currently on his feet. He is treating this whole situation as a light-hearted jokey Oxford Union debate.
I am appalled. He's making jokes, he's not realising that those of us watching, it's a stand-up show at some comedy festival.

How DARE he?

OUR future is at stake.