The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

[CGR]

I consider the anti semitism in the Labour Party a form of xenophobia fwiw.

Labour does have a major problem with the anti-semitism on the left of the party. There is also a huge issue with Corbyn's past support for terrorist causes.

I used to be a Labour member back in the 1990's, but I couldn't even vote for the party led by Corbyn or McDonnell or Abbott etc.

[Dave2002]

I think folks need to be a bit careful when doing the "sibing" thing to discredit party leaders

https://www.desmog.co.uk/piers-corbyn

Unfortunately it might appear from.the linked article that Piers is rather more deluded than his brother. Seems like a 100% climate change denier.

[Dave2002]

My Mum used to say "Never discuss religion or politics with friends. You are likely to lose them". Wise words.

So either you and I have no friends here, or perhaps none of us are wise.

[teamsaint]

I don't buy that
I don't buy the "antisemtism" smear
BUT there are plenty of folks on the "left" of politics who's rabid opposition to the EU couldn't be seen as anything but xenophobic

I'd say that many on the left have "considered", rather than "rabid" opposition to the EU.

[MrGongGong]

I'd say that many on the left have "considered", rather than "rabid" opposition to the EU.

Having met many of these folks I would say that "rabid" is putting it mildly.

[ahinton]

Indeed. It's amazing how many people still come out with the line that Corbyn and/or the party are "riddled with antisemitism" when this has been so comprehensively disproved.

Indeed, but most of those who do this are simply determined to upset apple-carts, in some cases purely for the sake of it; one might say something similar about Islamophobia in the Tory party although evidence disproving that has yet to be tried and tested.

[Richard Barrett]

Labour does have a major problem with the anti-semitism on the left of the party.

Do you perhaps have a link to some actual evidence of that? Joseph K has posted a link to plenty of evidence against it so that would seem only fair.

[oddoneout]

Indeed. It's amazing how many people still come out with the line that Corbyn and/or the party are "riddled with antisemitism" when this has been so comprehensively disproved.

From all the current political accusation and counter-accusation anyone would think that antisemitism is a relatively recent issue, but certainly in this country dislike/distrust of Jews has been part of the national psyche for centuries and runs deep. Christianity hasn't exactly been helpful.

[Richard Barrett]

I'd say that many on the left have "considered", rather than "rabid" opposition to the EU.

Indeed. It's very unusual to find anyone "on the left" who has an uncritical view of the EU, for reasons we've discussed here many times. I guess one might find some "rabid" opposition to it in Greece, but then the Greek people have had to bear the full horror of the EU's inherent neoliberal ideology laying waste to their country in defiance of the result of the 2015 referendum on accepting the EU's "bailout" terms. Criticism of the EU from a socialist perspective is of course not at all the same thing as the kind of little-England nonsense spouted by Farage et al. Remember the discussions we were having here before the referendum about the TTIP, which would curtail the ability of future EU-member governments to carry out (in the UK) such obviously beneficial and popular policies as renationalising public transport, just as surely as Johnson's selloff of the country to Trump would. It's clear that being outside the EU in the hands of far-right Tory ideologues is worse than being in the EU. But none of these issues is simple. Nothing is achieved by accusing those who acknowledge that complexity as "rabid".

[Richard Barrett]

From all the current political accusation and counter-accusation anyone would think that antisemitism is a relatively recent issue, but certainly in this country dislike/distrust of Jews has been part of the national psyche for centuries and runs deep. Christianity hasn't exactly been helpful.

That is true. But as JK's link shows, (a) it is less prevalent among Labour supporters than Tories, (b) it is less prevalent among Labour supporters than in the general public as a whole, and (c) its prevalence among Labour supporters has decreased under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership. These are the facts. The accusations against Corbyn and Labour clearly have some other motivation than exposing the truth.

[Richard Tarleton]

That is true. But as JK's link shows, (a) it is less prevalent among Labour supporters than Tories, (b) it is less prevalent among Labour supporters than in the general public as a whole, and (c) its prevalence among Labour supporters has decreased under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership. These are the facts. The accusations against Corbyn and Labour clearly have some other motivation than exposing the truth.

I had a good look at this link but find I have no way of evaluating it. The author's "About the Author" section says what he does, not who he is. He does not appear to quote sources for his statistics - perhaps he does and I've missed it, but as it stands they appear to be just unsubstantiated bar graphs. Are they based on surveys, or polls, and if so by whom, by what method and of whom? There seem to be no grounds for accepting that these are the "facts", as you do. What is one to make of the contrary views of those current and ex Labour MPs who are Jewish and who state that it is a problem? Their contributions to the debate are generally met (as far as I've read) with ad hominem (or, more often, ad feminem) abuse.

[eighthobstruction]

That is true. But as JK's link shows, (a) it is less prevalent among Labour supporters than Tories, (b) it is less prevalent among Labour supporters than in the general public as a whole, and (c) its prevalence among Labour supporters has decreased under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership. These are the facts. The accusations against Corbyn and Labour clearly have some other motivation than exposing the truth.

....of course it has become a quick motif for folk to trot out ref JC/Labour....and they do. Stands to reason that because human beings are involved distrust, dislike, intolerance are involved with some folk, as are trust, acceptance, tolerance with others. I find it sad that the deliverer of the motif, does not immediately qualify it with "so too the Tories and with anti-islamiphobia too"....but that is too much to ask....yes interesting website JK [I will pass it on to friends]

....Yes RT we had better make sure this thread does not vere away from topic....I too wonder about such a website....but in this case it seems tobe reaching common sense conclusions mostly....and that is my evaluation....

[Richard Barrett]

What is one to make of the contrary views of those current and ex Labour MPs who are Jewish and who state that it is a problem?

I think one starts by acknowledging Corbyn's criticism of Israeli apartheid, and everything else flows from there. As I said, the accusations have some other motivation than exposing the truth, and this is a main component of it. Note that the accusers never actually use any statistics in support of their arguments. (That's why I asked CGR to produce some hard evidence.) The author of the article does quote sources, two YouGov surveys in 2015 and 2017 and a survey by the Campaign Against Antisemitism. I follow this blog quite regularly. The author is not given to making things up.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Is this any use to anyone?

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-antisemitism-political-parties

[eighthobstruction]

Is this any use to anyone?

https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...itical-parties

....yes that's good....