The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

[Serial_Apologist]

Ash Sarkar?

Yes - didn't I say that??

[Serial_Apologist]

Yes - didn't I say that??

BTW there's some good stuff on her Twitter - including that closing exchange from last night's CH5 debate, and part of an interview with a rather wonderful old Spanish radical.

[Joseph K]

BTW there's some good stuff on her Twitter - including that closing exchange from last night's CH5 debate, and part of an interview with a rather wonderful old Spanish radical.

I've been aware for some time now of her work for Novara Media.

[teamsaint]

You must be joking
The Labour party is led by a lifetime opponent of the EU and is complicit in the whole mess by going along with it in the first place. Then, voting for it repeatedly.

Every Labour politician I hear on the radio starts off by saying "we need to respect the result of the referendum"
erm, no we don't, it was fundamentally flawed and dishonest and the role of REPRESENTA0TIVES is to represent not obey the whims of those who vote for them.
I also hear MPs saying that they have been "instructed" by the minority of the population who voted for it...

Furthermore a fantasy "soft Brexit" still means we lose our rights and freedoms for WHAT ?

The Labour party is part of the problem, trying to blame everything on the "evil Tories" is simply doing the whole "big boy did it and ran away" routine again.

Who we can actually vote FOR is anyones guess

Most Labour MPs are pro remain at heart, as is the membership, as they made clear last year.
The party has come out in favour of a referendum etc etc.

We ALL have some beef with the electoral system. But no change of direction on the EU is going to happen without the support of the Labour party.

[DracoM]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcparliament

Urge all to see this debate online.

[MrGongGong]

Most Labour MPs are pro remain at heart, as is the membership, as they made clear last year.
The party has come out in favour of a referendum etc etc.

We ALL have some beef with the electoral system. But no change of direction on the EU is going to happen without the support of the Labour party.

Maybe "most" are
but not those in charge i'm afraid

They keep insisting on "respecting" the vote

The problem IMV is that they believe in their party and it's history and survival more than what they know is best for the country
even a so-called "soft" brexit will be a total disaster for those they claim to care about.........

[Conchis]

Maybe "most" are
but not those in charge i'm afraid

They keep insisting on "respecting" the vote

The problem IMV is that they believe in their party and it's history and survival more than what they know is best for the country
even a so-called "soft" brexit will be a total disaster for those they claim to care about.........

Corbyn would dearly love Brexit to just go away.

But it won’t and. I think this may (finally) be dawning on him.

I think all opposition parties are coming to the realisation that the only way they can credibly resolve this impasse is by having a Second Referendum wiht Remain as an option and (preferably) with No Deal not an option.

That wouldn’t be my preference (I’d sooner revoke) but, as politicians, they will feel bound to show some obeisance to the blundering mistake made by one of their number (Cameron the Fatuous).

Still, there are plenty of Essex plumbers and Wigan flower-sellers who don’t care if they end up in the gutter, because they ‘just want to be free, innit?’

[Richard Barrett]

Going back to what we were saying before about why Labour might not back an election, we now see the answer: first it needs to be clear that there won't be a no-deal Brexit at the end of October and then we'll see about an election, which would seem to be the best line to take under the circumstances with the clock ticking as it is.

Any way out of the current situation, if it isn't just going to bring about a lurch unto yet another crisis, is going to have to take into account the people who voted Remain and the people who voted Leave. If Brexit were cancelled tomorrow, the referendum declared null and void, the Moggs and Farages wouldn't just pack up and go home, as I said before, and nor would the increase in racist attacks etc. in the wake of the referendum result be reversed, plus a considerable number of angry people would suddenly become much angrier. We can make whatever claims we like about the referendum having been rigged but, however true those claims might be, it's necessary to deal with the situation as it is, as it has developed, and not what the situation would have been if the Leave campaign had told the truth, if there hadn't been "Russian interference" or whatever. That's all spilt milk now. For such reasons, and not as a result of personal preference, I think that if there's to be no second referendum there needs to be something that could be represented as Britain leaving the EU while on the other hand leaving things like the customs union in place. No conceivable Tory government is going to do that because it would require a considerable extension of Britain's membership in order to start negotiations again from scratch. So the choice in any upcoming election is pretty clear I would say.

[Dave2002]

So the choice in any upcoming election is pretty clear I would say.

Really? Clear as mud, and many more machinations to go, perhaps.

[oddoneout]

So the choice in any upcoming election is pretty clear I would say.

Depends on what you mean by choice. I am in the middle of a sizable deep blue ocean; faced with a ballot paper I can make a decision, but choice?

[VodkaDilc]

Still, there are plenty of Essex plumbers and Wigan flower-sellers who don’t care if they end up in the gutter, because they ‘just want to be free, innit?’

I wonder whether offensive comments like this would have been allowed on this forum in earlier days.

It used to be a source of balanced and informed opinions. Now we have abuse.

[vinteuil]

.

... John Crace is, as usual, excellent :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/03/clown-prince-johnson-cowers-in-the-face-of-the-rebel-alliance

.

[gurnemanz]

I wonder whether offensive comments like this would have been allowed on this forum in earlier days.

It used to be a source of balanced and informed opinions. Now we have abuse.

Alas, the tone is being set by our own Prime Minister with his self-parodying bluster and D Trump with his shoot-from-the-hip twitter jibes.

[MrGongGong]

I wonder whether offensive comments like this would have been allowed on this forum in earlier days.

It used to be a source of balanced and informed opinions. Now we have abuse.

You must lead a very sheltered life

[Bryn]

Alas, the tone is being set by our own Prime Minister with his self-parodying bluster and D Trump with his shoot-from-the-hip twitter jibes.

Indeed, my own MP was last night called a "Muppet" by one Johnson's minesterial underlings, in response his waking up, smelling the coffee and crossing the benches to boost the LibDem contingent. That's two practicing medics said Minister has thrown infantile insults at in recent days. I did not vote for my MP, partly, though not principally, due to his then stance against the local GPS strong opposition to effective partial privatisation of the NHS. Since then, however, has taken frequent time out from his parliamentary responsibilities to lend a hand to local NHS services. I am tempted to lend him provisional support if he decides to stand again, under his new colours.