Originally posted by Richard Barrett
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The Dictatorship of the Etonariat
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Originally posted by teamsaint View PostBusiness and trade are fundamental to the whole thing, whether we like it or not.The single market and customs union are sacrosanct. There are significant trade ( and other) barriers with third countries.
And the governments individual countries negotiate within the EU for what they want.
The collaborative bits follow on from the results of those negotiations.
whereas other people have different priorities and think that it's the other way round
Which is not to say that trade isn't important
but it's NOT what drives everything
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Originally posted by MrGongGong View Postcollaborations aren't "business deals "
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Originally posted by MrGongGong View PostOne of the fundamental problems with the whole thing IMV is the way that a collaborative relationship is seen as some kind of "buisiness" deal and "negotiation" is some kind of battle to get what WE want.
It's NOT
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Originally posted by ahinton View PostIt is AND it isn't; negotiations about the/a Single Market, the/a Customs Union, tariffs and even the border arrangements between NI and Ireland ARE all about business deals because trade is at the heart of them all and, because there are two sides to such negotiations, neither can avoid battling for what it wants, albeit in the hope that some kind of compromise acceptable to both sides might be reached as a consequence of them; that said, had UK not promised, launchd and conducted a referendum on its continued EU membership, there wouldn't BE two sides or any need to negotiate anything, so any view on this must take on board the fact that the impetus for all of this has come from UK, not from both sides. There are other considerations besides commercial ones, of course, but there can be no pushing to one side that much of what has required negotiation is trade related.
they are quite happy to see the return of the violence of the 1970's so they can have their precious "deal"
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Originally posted by Richard Barrett View PostWell, as far as capitalist governments are concerned, yes they are. Sure there's a bit of cultural icing on top to make them look more palatable but the EU was set up as a way of entrenching neoliberal ideology on a scale that could compete with other world powers, and so it remains. Remaining in the EU would of course be preferable for those of our profession and others, but let's not allow that to obscure the facts.
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Originally posted by MrGongGong View PostNone of the people involved give a sh*t about the folks in NI
they are quite happy to see the return of the violence of the 1970's so they can have their precious "deal"
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Originally posted by ahinton View Postit is also the case that the wind would be taken out of their sails were such reunification to be agreed between the two entities and achieved by peaceful means. Eveyone whom I know who is from and/or lives in NI considers him/herself "Irish".
There is so much b*llshit around the way that politicians talk about not having different rules for NI anyway. I suggest they buy a car in NI and then try taxing it in England to dicover that NI isn't part of the UK for that ... and there are probably many many more examples.
The people of NI (and Scotland) who voted (and there again on R4 we had a government minister saying that "the majority of people in the UK voted to leave" without being taken to task or cut off for lying!) wanted to stay in the EU. I guess their views don't matter...
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I find possibly the most depressing aspect of the whole process to date has been the dumbfounded ignorance of most MPs about the legal basis of our membership of the EU and trading relationship with it. Nearly all of them have been learning piecemeal. Second only to the ignorance of the wider populace. But that’s how we’ve ended up where we are.
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