The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

[Serial_Apologist]

From The Spectator

The Spectator are being rather "previous" in their desire to jump the gun - you'd expect that.

[oddoneout]

From The Spectator

Does 0.7% in Rochdale cf 6.3% in Islington reflect the views of the population, or the inclination or otherwise to engage in such petitions? Would the outcome be different in a non-Brexit matter?

[oddoneout]

I might have agreed with you at one point — but I don’t see the validity of trying to understand someone else’s point of view when they are determined to ignore yours.

Success isn't a given; it's the attempt that matters as far as I'm concerned.

[DracoM]

Maybe, but then checkout on same map other NW / NE England, Scottish and Welsh constituencies - erm..........?
Not a few of which are Tory and show for the sitting MP's an uncomfortable number signing in. So..........? Where to now?

[teamsaint]

Maybe, but then checkout on same map other NW / NE England, Scottish and Welsh constituencies - erm..........?
Not a few of which are Tory and show for the sitting MP's an uncomfortable number signing in. So..........? Where to now?

Pretty sure I read somewhere that 40% of Tory voters voted remain.
If even a modest proportion in marginals changed their vote in a GE to a more remain inclined party, it would be significant.

[LMcD]

Does 0.7% in Rochdale cf 6.3% in Islington reflect the views of the population, or the inclination or otherwise to engage in such petitions? Would the outcome be different in a non-Brexit matter?

I'm not quite sure what the national average is, but in Suffolk Coastal the percentage that have signed has increased by some three and half times since roughly the same time yesterday.

[Richard Tarleton]

Maybe, but then checkout on same map other NW / NE England, Scottish and Welsh constituencies - erm..........?
Not a few of which are Tory and show for the sitting MP's an uncomfortable number signing in. So..........? Where to now?

Indeed - so far in my constituency in SW Wales, 1,309 have signed (including me), or 1.688% of the electorate. Our Tory MP's majority at the last election was 3,000. 1500 votes off his majority and added to someone else's vote....mind you that could be split between LibDems and Plaid.....

[Serial_Apologist]

Does 0.7% in Rochdale cf 6.3% in Islington reflect the views of the population, or the inclination or otherwise to engage in such petitions? Would the outcome be different in a non-Brexit matter?

Good points.

[oddoneout]

Maybe, but then checkout on same map other NW / NE England, Scottish and Welsh constituencies - erm..........?
Not a few of which are Tory and show for the sitting MP's an uncomfortable number signing in. So..........? Where to now?

Don't suppose the MP for my constituency will be losing any sleep over the 1.7% signing; he got a 59% share of the votes in 2017, and more recently a nice career enhancing job from his new leader as a reward for being a successful tactician.

[CGR]

Pretty sure I read somewhere that 40% of Tory voters voted remain.
If even a modest proportion in marginals changed their vote in a GE to a more remain inclined party, it would be significant.

I see that the latest YouGov Poll has the Tories on 34%, Labour on 22% and the LibDems on 17%. The Brexit Party are on 13%, but if they could be persuaded to agree something with Boris's Tories that would give the pro-Brexit side something like 40%+ vote share and a potential landslide win in an Autumn General Election.

[jayne lee wilson]

But just pinning the blame on one flawed aspect of a system that is,also inevitably, flawed to a greater or lesser degree at every level, doesn’t move things on.
Those who favour remain would no doubt grab another “plebiscite “with both hands right now.
And the liberal left ,( as well as the lunatic right) has a hell of a lot of questions to answer, I’m sorry to say.
A8 accession issues, the ruthless undermining of the Labour party since Corbyn won the leadership, loss of trust post Iraq and so on and so on.........

But the plebiscite would be far better informed now, and it is in any case a different plebiscite - the "people" are not the same as in 2016, by virtue of births, deaths, and voters coming-of-age....so the 2nd Referendum. a "peoples' vote" should be the honourable choice for will-of-the-people-Brexiters of any kind. But... they are all too scared they might lose & cling greedily to their supposed mandate ...

Are you likely to get the Brexit you or any Labour Party members/supporters want, from the present position? It is now a crude, ruthless, rightwing, royalist-frogmarching hijack, by Tories like Daniel Hannan obsessed with it since the 1990s..... (and they have no new "arguments"...)

Should you still wish to pursue it, it needs a truly democratic reset at the very least...
I've written today, and several times previously, to my local Labour MP to ask for that (inter alia!!)...

[David-G]

I thought politics was not to be discussed on the R3 Forum? Have the rules changed again?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I thought politics was not to be discussed on the R3 Forum? Have the rules changed again?

See post #66, David

[Richard Tarleton]

Nothing to do with "bad form" - everything to do with people leaving the Forum because of the bad feeling caused on the Political Threads, which sadly happens with each such discussion. And to do with the requirement of the Hosts (that collection of "angry, impotent liberals" who simultaneously manage to behave like Tsarist Russians), to keep close watch on what is posted - and to respond when the Complaints start arriving in our (private, home) e-Mails (oooh, goody: more have arrived since I started writing this post!).

Every time a "Political" Thread begins, my heart sinks - because the record on the Forum is ... "consistent": people begin reasonably, set up opposing viewpoints, and stick to them no matter what, to the point where the mud starts to be slung. I do not see how it could be otherwise on a Forum such as this, "run" by volunteers who endeavour to maintain as strictly unbiased an attitude as possible - especially about a topic as polarising as Brexit and the political machinations of the toxic Tory party. But I let the Threads run each time in the hope that maybe, just maybe this time it will run well - there will be an expression of views (or even just a basic expression of anger from impotent liberals) that won't descend into serious acrimony - again. When it does so descend, that's when it gets closed.

The Hosts' job is to maintain and expand membership - political Threads lose members. Simple as ...

Ferney, you'd make an outstanding pub landlord

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Ferney, you'd make an outstanding pub landlord