The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

[ahinton]

See what I mean?

I do in principle, but this bit's mainly about the Queen who is, supposedly, "above politics"...

[DracoM]

Well, I'd agree that there's a sense of hopelessness (in this person at least). Things are happening that we appear to have no control over. What's now being offered will have severe consequences for the part of the UK I live in, bears no relationship to what was offered before the referendum, and there's nothing anyone appears to be able to do about it.

Utterly agree.
Sheep farmers - the main industry apart from tourism - here once voted 'leave', but are now VERY far from sure that was the right decision. INdeed, many have said they feel betrayed. Betrayed by what I leave you to suggest.

[oddoneout]

the impression I get is that most people on this forum are basically liberal with small if not a large L and their contributions on here evince the limitations of the liberal mindset: a belief that if we play fair, our opponents, impressed by the example we set, will play fair, too.

If someone felt it necessary to pigeonhole me politically then I imagine 'liberal' would be the slot chosen. However it has nothing to do with expecting others to play fair, but rather trying to live in a way I think right. From the very earliest childhood I was told, often forcefully, that 'two wrongs don't make a right', and it stuck. The fact that within my family my siblings often didn't take any notice of that principle, and didn't play fair, taught me not to have expectations of others' behaviour - but the basic idea seemed to me to be a good one and so I stuck with it. No doubt if I didn't also have the unfortunate wish to try and see more than one side of an issue life would have been somewhat easier - I can certainly see the attraction of aligning with particular political, or indeed religious, tribes.
And if that makes me an ineffectual and indecisive waste of space then so be it - heaven knows it's a charge I level at myself often enough - but a liberal? I'm not convinced.

[DracoM]

Behind this wildness is a shadowy, unelected fanatic, expert at manipulating narcissists.
You may be thinking I am talking about John Bolton pulling Trump's strings.
But look at Westminster, and you will see another such.

[ahinton]

If someone felt it necessary to pigeonhole me politically then I imagine 'liberal' would be the slot chosen. However it has nothing to do with expecting others to play fair, but rather trying to live in a way I think right. From the very earliest childhood I was told, often forcefully, that 'two wrongs don't make a right', and it stuck. The fact that within my family my siblings often didn't take any notice of that principle, and didn't play fair, taught me not to have expectations of others' behaviour - but the basic idea seemed to me to be a good one and so I stuck with it. No doubt if I didn't also have the unfortunate wish to try and see more than one side of an issue life would have been somewhat easier - I can certainly see the attraction of aligning with particular political, or indeed religious, tribes.
And if that makes me an ineffectual and indecisive waste of space then so be it - heaven knows it's a charge I level at myself often enough - but a liberal? I'm not convinced.

I can only say that I am not and have never been a member of any political party or other organisation. Indeed, I once found myself obliged to explain this to the headmaster of my grammar school many years ago when I was hauled before him and accused of having joined one and I had no idea what he was talking about; he then said that he had evidence that I had joined the Musicians' Union. I tried not to laugh at this but I saw the point that he was probably trying to make so I confirmed that I had opted to defer the small percentage of my MU subscription that by default would be allocated to its political fund to its benevolent fund; he grudgingly accepted this but was still fiercely critical of my having joined at all and, when I replied that I needed to do so because of certain paid work that I was doing, he retorted that I had no business to be doing such things while at "hi" school. At that point, I thought that silence was the best option and, of course, I did not cancel my membership.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

They are more interested in stopping Brexit than anything else.

Guilty as charged, your honour.

We’ll see how history judges us

[vinteuil]

I know you’re not a liberal (and I’m CERTAINLY not) but the impression I get is that most people on this forum are basically liberal with small if not a large L ...

/ ... /

What Britain needs is a left-wing government that will not shirk from deploying right wing methods: I’m afraid that does actually mean slitting peoples’ throats rather than attempting to ‘persuade’ them. Surely we’ve realised by now that some people (and you can see these bovine numbskulls interviewed on the vox pop segments on tv) are beyond persuasion?

.

... the problem then becomes, who should decide whose throats should be slit. The French encountered this conundrum 1793/1794.

If the eventual 'solution' is Napoleon, I'm not sure we're getting far...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_of_18_Brumaire

.

[Stunsworth]

Sheep farmers - the main industry apart from tourism - here once voted 'leave', but are now VERY far from sure that was the right decision. INdeed, many have said they feel betrayed. Betrayed by what I leave you to suggest.

Perhaps they misunderstood what was meant by 'sunlit uplands'. A rather literal interpretation perhaps.

[muzzer]

It’s all thoroughly dispiriting, whichever side of the argument one is on (and there’s plenty to be said about that, of course). My biggest fear is that having come to this point of a hollowing out from the uneasy balance that’s been more or less in place for my whole life, the remainder of it will be irrevocably blighted, with little or no prospect of any sort of equilibrium returning. And I don’t like that feeling one little bit. History suggests that the sort of polarity which has arisen in recent years plays out painfully and destructively for everyone.

[LMcD]

Utterly agree.
Sheep farmers - the main industry apart from tourism - here once voted 'leave', but are now VERY far from sure that was the right decision. INdeed, many have said they feel betrayed. Betrayed by what I leave you to suggest.

Which just goes to prove the danger inherent in getting what ewe've wished for. Even Norman Lamb has decided not to stand again.

[LMcD]

Behind this wildness is a shadowy, unelected fanatic, expert at manipulating narcissists.
You may be thinking I am talking about John Bolton pulling Trump's strings.
But look at Westminster, and you will see another such.

Are you referring by any chance to the non-DC DC?

[eighthobstruction]

Behind this wildness is a shadowy, unelected fanatic, expert at manipulating narcissists.
You may be thinking I am talking about John Bolton pulling Trump's strings.
But look at Westminster, and you will see another such.

....sitting here with my sorry sorry dyslexic brain conglomerating and gridlocking....lots to say, sorry brain to do it....March in Leeds on Saturday -but most likely no energy or stamina to go....probably be folk shouting " Blaa Jeremy Corbyn" to which I would be compelled to shout in same mode "B8ll8x to Jeremy Corbyn" and would probably have to march with Lib DEms to get some protection from Momentum zealots....

....Hoping this isn't just an Establishment ruse to blind /startle/and false trail folk into an Election with deflected information, glittering gifts and Red Top coverage igniting Xenaphobia (+ false WW2 syndrome in ignorant folk who were never there but were football holigans at Euro 2000) ....this little interlude has debased deception written all over it...."perfidious"...

....keep it clean - keep it going....

[DracoM]

Are you referring by any chance to the non-DC DC?

You might say that - I couldn't possibly comment.

[eighthobstruction]

It’s all thoroughly dispiriting, whichever side of the argument one is on (and there’s plenty to be said about that, of course). My biggest fear is that having come to this point of a hollowing out from the uneasy balance that’s been more or less in place for my whole life, the remainder of it will be irrevocably blighted, with little or no prospect of any sort of equilibrium returning. And I don’t like that feeling one little bit. History suggests that the sort of polarity which has arisen in recent years plays out painfully and destructively for everyone.

yes i echo that....

[Richard Barrett]

But it really isn't necessary to view "polarisation" as an inherently bad thing, when in fact positive changes in society, like the abolition of slavery, votes for women, workers' rights and so on have all come about as a result of "polarisation" around these issues. What we are seeing now, as a result of the processes that led to the Brexit vote, is a laying bare of the class structure of British society, which the Johnsons and Camerons of the country (if not the Moggs) have generally tried to paper over in the interests of retaining their position of power and making the situation look "democratic". As soon as that position is seriously under threat their true colours begin to show.