The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

[Bryn]

My point, as I believe I clearly expressed it, is that the marginally greater minority of the electorate who voted to leave cannot be legitimately held to represent the 'will of the people', as is commonly asserted.

[Boilk]

The true will of the people for me is more than 50% of the eligible electorate placing their cross in the same box. But we rarely get that even with governments.

To obtain the will of the people on Leave vs. Remain, voting in a 2nd referendum might have to be made legally mandatory.

[Demetrius]

The thing is that the "will of the people", a straight-forward, no holds-barred direct democracy, is a bad thing. The UK, just as basically every state in the western world, is a representative democracy (with some monarchic icing on top so that the gossip papers get to fill their pages). Build on democratic principles yes, but no dictatorship of the majority. The first referendum was a bad, bad idea, asking for a straight up or down vote on an almost infinitely complex issue. Even if the second referendum may be an answer to get the UK out of the mess they/you are in right now (not that the Brexiteers would go away, this issue would then dominate your political debate for decades), it would still be a bad idea.

Shutting down parliament when you don't like what it may do has a few precedents ... Charles I, Cromwell, James II ... the good old days of peace and stability in extremely united times, I suppose.

[LMcD]

Unelected man demands unelected woman suspends elected parliament.

Probably at the behest of unelected Special Advisor.

[Stunsworth]

I'm reminded of The Simpsons when Homer Simpson, watching the News, said, 'Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em all out.'

Originally said by Abbot Artaud Amalric During the suppression of the Cathars in 13th century. Homer was obviously a well read man.

[Richard Barrett]

Originally said by Abbot Artaud Amalric During the suppression of the Cathars in 13th century.

I was thinking that too.

One of the ways in which the current discourse gets stultified is that words like "democracy" and the "will of the people" get bandied around as if their meaning was obvious and agreed upon.

[MrGongGong]

One of the ways in which the current discourse gets stultified is that words like "democracy" and the "will of the people" get bandied around as if their meaning was obvious and agreed upon.

A bit like the word "music" in the NPME (in England)

Under the "prevent" strategy you can get picked up by the rozzers and locked up for arguing against "democracy".

The UK Government defines extremism as vocal or active opposition to fundamental British values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and beliefs.

https://www.canterbury.ac.uk/university-solicitors-office/docs/government-definitions-of-extremism-radicalisation-and-terrorism.pdf

[Conchis]

This thread- the keynote of which is defined by the initial posting - is stuffed full of impotent middle-class liberal anger.

[Stunsworth]

This thread- the keynote of which is defined by the initial posting - is stuffed full of impotent middle-class liberal anger.

Well, I'd agree that there's a sense of hopelessness (in this person at least). Things are happening that we appear to have no control over. What's now being offered will have severe consequences for the part of the UK I live in, bears no relationship to what was offered before the referendum, and there's nothing anyone appears to be able to do about it.

[Beresford]

You have to admire French irony - France Musique played "Land of Hope and Glory" this morning.

[LMcD]

You have to admire French irony - France Musique played "Land of Hope and Glory" this morning.

... to which, I guess, one could sing the words 'Never Trust A Tory' especially if, like me, you're one of those dreadful angry middle-class liberals referred to above.

[Richard Barrett]

Gosh, I've been accused of many heinous things but "liberal" is a first.

edit: There seems to be a widely held opinion that discussing politics is somehow "bad form". It's no wonder therefore that so many people get so little practise in discussing it that they seemingly aren't able to do so in a rational and articulate way. That's also IMO one of the phenomena leading directly towards the current crisis. anyway, I'm just going to register here that I have strong feelings on the issue at hand and leave it at that, and continue talking about it elsewhere. This thread will no doubt be closed down fairly soon anyway! (and what does that imply?)

[BBMmk2]

What happened to the no politics policy?

[Richard Barrett]

See what I mean?

[cloughie]

You have to admire French irony - France Musique played "Land of Hope and Glory" this morning.

...but you wouldn’t bat an eyelid if R3 played La Marseillaise!