The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

[teamsaint]

But the plebiscite would be far better informed now, and it is in any case a different plebiscite - the "people" are not the same as in 2016, by virtue of births, deaths, and voters coming-of-age....so the 2nd Referendum. a "peoples' vote" should be the honourable choice for will-of-the-people-Brexiters of any kind. But... they are all too scared they might lose & cling greedily to their supposed mandate ...

Are you likely to get the Brexit you or any Labour Party members/supporters want, from the present position? It is now a crude, ruthless, rightwing, royalist-frogmarching hijack, by Tories like Daniel Hannan obsessed with it since the 1990s..... (and they have no new "arguments"...)

Should you still wish to pursue it, it needs a truly democratic reset at the very least...
I've written today, and several times previously, to my local Labour MP to ask for that (inter alia!!)...

I think we should have a second referendum, as I said on here some time ago, remain against the WA/PD. And I also think that they have a useful place in our political system.

I can't tell the future about what kind of Brexit we will have, but then again I can't tell what the future of the EU will be either. Actually, my best guess is that the WA ( or something like it) will be passed in the end, because BJ will have freaked out enough of the soft Brexiters in the other parties , assuming we don't have a GE very shortly.

[Conchis]

I see that the latest YouGov Poll has the Tories on 34%, Labour on 22% and the LibDems on 17%. The Brexit Party are on 13%, but if they could be persuaded to agree something with Boris's Tories that would give the pro-Brexit side something like 40%+ vote share and a potential landslide win in an Autumn General Election.

Polls by YouGov, or by anyone else at this stage of the game, have only one utility: to wipe your rear-end with.

What happened to the Maybot’s 20 per cent lead in 2017?

Blow Job is, if anything, an even more divisive figure than May. If the anti-Brexit forces can co-ordinate, as they so conspicuously failed to do in 2016, he can be defeated.

[Serial_Apologist]

I've never "got" the No Deal Must Be On The Table logic. To me it's like saying I'm prepared to go on having discussions with people on this forum, and compromise with them when we can't come to an agreed conclusion, so long as I can leave the forum at any point. It's either oxymoronic as a position in the first place, or meaningless.

[cloughie]

Ferney, you'd make an outstanding pub landlord

Yes, like my evening which was music and good beer, and politics-free!

[Dave2002]

I've never "got" the No Deal Must Be On The Table logic. To me it's like saying I'm prepared to go on having discussions with people on this forum, and compromise with them when we can't come to an agreed conclusion, so long as I can leave the forum at any point. It's either oxymoronic as a position in the first place, or meaningless.

For me the No Deal thing is just blatantly stupid, and generally in no way comparable to most deals in business or "real life".

Often a no deal situation leaves things more or less as they are/were, though one or both parties may not be happy with the result. It does depend on the particular negotiations though, and what the stakes are.

Markets are sometimes described as "buyer's markets" or " seller's markets", terms which make sense if there are too many people wanting to sell or very many people wanting to buy, respectively.

Under "normal" conditions maybe neither side has a strong advantage, and a supposedly fair and balanced outcome results, maybe even to the benefit of both. I don't believe that the current negotiations - or lack of them - are similar. Walking away from "a deal" will not preserve the status quo, as the negotiations have already significantly disturbed (spoiled) the possibilities.

[muzzer]

Actually, my best guess is that the WA ( or something like it) will be passed in the end, because BJ will have freaked out enough of the soft Brexiters in the other parties , assuming we don't have a GE very shortly.

I think you’re right about the WA. We’ll know all too soon.

[LMcD]

I think you’re right about the WA. We’ll know all too soon.

Yes, I know I should pay attention and keep up, but what is the 'WA'? (Presumably not the Woyal Assent).

[oddoneout]

Yes, I know I should pay attention and keep up, but what is the 'WA'? (Presumably not the Woyal Assent).

Withdrawal Agreement.

[vinteuil]

Yes, I know I should pay attention and keep up, but what is the 'WA'? (Presumably not the Woyal Assent).

WA = Withdrawal Agreement

I see OOO got there first.

I so wish people wdn't used initials/acronyms

.

[cloughie]

Yes, I know I should pay attention and keep up, but what is the 'WA'? (Presumably not the Woyal Assent).

Glad you asked LMcD - there’s always some clever d using initials on these threads!

[MrGongGong]

For me the No Deal thing is just blatantly stupid, and generally in no way comparable to most deals in business or "real life".
.

One of the fundamental problems with the whole thing IMV is the way that a collaborative relationship is seen as some kind of "buisiness" deal and "negotiation" is some kind of battle to get what WE want.

It's NOT

[Bryn]

One of the fundamental problems with the whole thing IMV is the way that a collaborative relationship is seen as some kind of "buisiness" deal and "negotiation" is some kind of battle to get what WE want.

It's NOT

O.k., I think I get what IMV is but what are WE and NOT?

[MrGongGong]

O.k., I think I get what IMV is but what are WE and NOT?

"WE" should have been in ""
and NOT

Is that collaborations aren't "business deals "

[Richard Barrett]

O.k., I think I get what IMV is but what are WE and NOT?

I think WE is Weary England and NOT is Never Overlook Trotsky.

[teamsaint]

One of the fundamental problems with the whole thing IMV is the way that a collaborative relationship is seen as some kind of "buisiness" deal and "negotiation" is some kind of battle to get what WE want.

It's NOT

Business and trade are fundamental to the whole thing, whether we like it or not.The single market and customs union are sacrosanct. There are significant trade ( and other) barriers with third countries.
And the governments individual countries negotiate within the EU for what they want.
The collaborative bits follow on from the results of those negotiations.