Originally posted by MrGongGong
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The Dictatorship of the Etonariat
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Originally posted by Bella Kemp View PostYou're right Mr GongGong. CGR may either be someone very silly, or actually one of Mr Putin's bots - those computer-generated things that sow discord on Facebook and other places. It's fascinating to observe how effective it is: witness the rather more personal attacks that have appeared on this thread since its intervention. Better for all to simply avoid commenting on whatever it comes up with. When I taught in primary schools I was forever telling the children to avoid being upset by the silly ones and that the best remedy was to walk away. If you are real GCR, God bless you and may you have a little think before you post.
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Originally posted by sidneyfox View PostTrue, and the accusation of racism is thrown about so much these days that it’s almost lost it’s meaning. Although Boris seems to be a rather unsavoury character. But is he that out of kilter with most of the rest of parliament and its appalling behaviour? British politics, it’s procedures, statesmen and decisions were once looked upon as the gold standard on how to govern. IMHO, we are now a laughing stock.
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Originally posted by sidneyfox View PostObjectively speaking, MPs are behaving very much as delegates, given that most sit in constituencies that most people voted to leave (the referendum vote mapped onto constituencies would give a landslide majority to leave, had it been a general election). If MPs acted according to their constituents’ wishes, the UK would have left a long time ago. MPs and the parliament are doing their own thing.
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Originally posted by sidneyfox View PostObjectively speaking, MPs are behaving very much as delegates, given that most sit in constituencies that most people voted to leave (the referendum vote mapped onto constituencies would give a landslide majority to leave, had it been a general election). If MPs acted according to their constituents’ wishes, the UK would have left a long time ago. MPs and the parliament are doing their own thing.
The vast majority of them still insist that they have to "respect the result" when, if they were really acting as representatives and representing our best interests they would scrap the whole thing...
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Originally posted by MrGongGong View PostThat's simply not the case
The vast majority of them still insist that they have to "respect the result" when, if they were really acting as representatives and representing our best interests they would scrap the whole thing...
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I think arguments about ‘democracy’ are irrelevant. What the events of the last three years has proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, is that Brexit is undeliverable.
There is no crisis in the country, only a crisis among the political class, whose bluff was called. It would only be right and proper if the real casualty of that crisis was the Conservative Party.
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Originally posted by sidneyfox View PostIt’s not about ‘respecting the referendum’. And there should be no reluctance - they (parliament) overwhelmingly passed a bill to hold a referendum on whether the UK should remain in the EU. Following the referendum parliament then took the decision to act on the result and with the biggest democratic mandate in our history they passed an act of parliament for our withdrawal. So they must ‘respect the result’ mustn’t they? There is absolutely no mandate whatsoever for remaining in the EU, nor is there any mandate to change the remain/leave option to include the proviso of a deal.
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Originally posted by sidneyfox View PostIt’s not about ‘respecting the referendum’. And there should be no reluctance - they (parliament) overwhelmingly passed a bill to hold a referendum on whether the UK should remain in the EU. Following the referendum parliament then took the decision to act on the result and with the biggest democratic mandate in our history they passed an act of parliament for our withdrawal. So they must ‘respect the result’ mustn’t they? There is absolutely no mandate whatsoever for remaining in the EU, nor is there any mandate to change the remain/leave option to include the proviso of a deal.
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Originally posted by Beresford View PostThe referendum is NOT a mandate - it is advisory under law. Just as the "Will of the People" is in truth the "Wish of 37% of the people"
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Originally posted by sidneyfox View PostObjectively speaking, MPs are behaving very much as delegates, given that most sit in constituencies that most people voted to leave (the referendum vote mapped onto constituencies would give a landslide majority to leave, had it been a general election). If MPs acted according to their constituents’ wishes, the UK would have left a long time ago. MPs and the parliament are doing their own thing.
I agree that over the whole country there is or was a move in favour of Leave, but so far that has not been seen to be possible, for some really quite sensible reasons.
In terms of what people want, I suspect despite all the anger, shenanigans etc., that leaving the EU is really rather low down on most people's priorities. The whole debacle has been a disaster in terms of distracting the MPs and civil servants away from really running the country.
I am not strongly attached to either view, but things do have to be done in ways which won't make our lives substantially worse, both in the short term, and in the longer term.
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Originally posted by Bryn View PostRespecting the result of a referendum held under U.K. constitutional conditions and treating that result as a diktat are two different things. In this state, referendums are, constitutionally, advisory. It is up to the parliamentary representatives to decide the way in which to apply respect to the result.
Referendum leaflet: "This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide."
Labour Manifesto 2017: "Labour accepts the referendum result ..."
Politicians - Liars, traitors and charlatans
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Originally posted by Beresford View PostThe referendum is NOT a mandate - it is advisory under law. Just as the "Will of the People" is in truth the "Wish of 37% of the people in 2016".
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Originally posted by Bryn View PostNot quite. It is, rather, a measure of the wish of around 27% of the people. It indicated the wish of around 37% of those entitled to vote.
The fact that you wanted a different outcome is another conversation altogether.
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