The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

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  • Richard Barrett
    Guest
    • Jan 2016
    • 6259

    Originally posted by Cockney Sparrow View Post
    Yes - John Hurt's expression as he realised the citizenry / the mob, had turned against him...
    I don't think "Boris" has reached that realisation yet - his education inoculated him from taking any notice of the citizenry. He "profoundly disagrees" with the unanimous verdict of the Supreme Court! - well, I could have profoundly disagreed with my last parking ticket but I still had to pay it.

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    • MrGongGong
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 18357

      Originally posted by gradus View Post
      Thomas Cook reportedly needed £200m, doesn't seem very much in the great scheme of things if it could have saved 9,000 jobs. Odd that the German govt and the State of Hesse found 380million euros to save Condor, TC's German subsidiary.
      I really don't understand why Labour haven't seized on this, or have I missed it in the Supreme Court hubbub.
      I thought the Labour party did say things about this ?

      If I f*ck up my work by not anticipating what is likely to come in the future (and I know a few HE institutions who have been recently "surprised" by the number of students applying to study music, it's been a HUGE secret that music education has been in engineered decline, I know ) can I get a future Labour government to bail me out as well ?

      asking for a friend

      Surely it's part of the Labour party's enthusiasm for environmental concerns to ensure that companies like TC go out of business anyway ? All those air miles and unnecessary flights

      Comment

      • Richard Barrett
        Guest
        • Jan 2016
        • 6259

        Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
        If I f*ck up my work by not anticipating what is likely to come in the future (and I know a few HE institutions who have been recently "suprised" by the number of students applying to study music, it's been a HUGE secret that music education has been in engineered decline, I know ) can I get a future Labour government to bail me out as well ?
        That might depend on how many thousands of employees you give jobs to.

        Comment

        • MrGongGong
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 18357

          Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
          That might depend on how many thousands of employees you give jobs to.
          Jobs or the environment ?

          (I know, i'm going to Australia on Saturday for a week.... it's a fair cop guv )

          Comment

          • Bryn
            Banned
            • Mar 2007
            • 24688

            Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
            Jobs or the environment ?

            (I know, i'm going to Australia on Saturday for a week.... it's a fair cop guv )
            Blimey! That's fast sailing.

            Comment

            • Richard Barrett
              Guest
              • Jan 2016
              • 6259

              Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
              Surely it's part of the Labour party's enthusiasm for environmental concerns to ensure that companies like TC go out of business anyway ? All those air miles and unnecessary flights
              Depriving people of their livelihoods from one day to the next isn't exactly environmentally responsible, is it? Yes of course there's a serious point here, about what happens to people in industries that contribute the most to climate change, but air transport contributes 1.7% to total CO2 production compared with 10.5% by road transport and 11.3% by deforestation. A longer term plan that committed to reducing emissions would have to redistribute wealth so that working hours can be reduced and unnecessarily polluting activities shut down.

              Comment

              • MrGongGong
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 18357

                Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
                Depriving people of their livelihoods from one day to the next isn't exactly environmentally responsible, is it? Yes of course there's a serious point here, about what happens to people in industries that contribute the most to climate change, but air transport contributes 1.7% to total CO2 production compared with 10.5% by road transport and 11.3% by deforestation. A longer term plan that committed to reducing emissions would have to redistribute wealth so that working hours can be reduced and unnecessarily polluting activities shut down.
                Indeed

                Are you going to reduce your working hours ?
                Personally i'm increasing mine as i've got a commission to work on and it's likely to absorb hours and hours
                Maybe the whole idea of what we mean by "working hours" and "work" is also in need of an examination ?

                Comment

                • Bryn
                  Banned
                  • Mar 2007
                  • 24688

                  Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                  Indeed

                  Are you going to reduce your working hours ?
                  Personally i'm increasing mine as i've got a commission to work on and it's likely to absorb hours and hours
                  Maybe the whole idea of what we mean by "working hours" and "work" is also in need of an examination ?
                  Having worked for a couple of decades in a role governed by working hours legislation aimed at protecting the health and safety of both employees and those they served, I take exception to the use of suggestions of reduction of working hours as a cheap debating point. The context of Mr. Barrett's reference to the reduction of working hours clearly related to those whose working hours were controlled by others, not the hours worked by those in control of their own working.

                  Comment

                  • MrGongGong
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 18357

                    Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                    Having worked for a couple of decades in a role governed by working hours legislation aimed at protecting the health and safety of both employees and those they served, I take exception to the use of suggestions of reduction of working hours as a cheap debating point. The context of Mr. Barrett's reference to the reduction of working hours clearly related to those whose working hours were controlled by others, not the hours worked by those in control of their own working.
                    Point taken
                    and I DO think that there are many people who do need their working hours tightly controlled
                    but when I hear talk about this from many on the "left" it's always assumed that the "workers" are in the employment of the nasty "bosses"
                    maybe it IS time for a rethink of how things work on a more fundamental level?

                    I've just had a project cancelled next year because the head of a school won't allow the head of music to go to a meeting or take their students to a concert. What sort of way is that to manage anything ?

                    Comment

                    • Bryn
                      Banned
                      • Mar 2007
                      • 24688

                      Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                      Point taken
                      and I DO think that there are many people who do need their working hours tightly controlled
                      but when I hear talk about this from many on the "left" it's always assumed that the "workers" are in the employment of the nasty "bosses"
                      maybe it IS time for a rethink of how things work on a more fundamental level?

                      I've just had a project cancelled next year because the head of a school won't allow the head of music to go to a meeting or take their students to a concert. What sort of way is that to manage anything ?
                      I empathise with your situation. It puts me in mind of the disgust I felt when hearing a Tory politician attack school student who participated in climate change activity, rather than attending school. This from an elected representative of a political party whose withholding of the necessary funding from education has led to many schools having to end their teaching weeks at Friday lunchtime. That is 19½ days teaching a year lost to pupils.

                      Comment

                      • LHC
                        Full Member
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 1556

                        Originally posted by gradus View Post
                        Thomas Cook reportedly needed £200m, doesn't seem very much in the great scheme of things if it could have saved 9,000 jobs. Odd that the German govt and the State of Hesse found 380million euros to save Condor, TC's German subsidiary.
                        I really don't understand why Labour haven't seized on this, or have I missed it in the Supreme Court hubbub.
                        Thomas Cook has debts of nearly £2bn, and had already had an injection of £300m a few months ago. £200m would have kept it going for a couple of months, at which point it would have failed again. It would have needed much more money to address its failing business model and start to reduce its debts. The suggestion that £200m would have saved TC and its workers’ jobs is wrong.
                        "I do not approve of anything that tampers with natural ignorance. Ignorance is like a delicate exotic fruit; touch it and the bloom is gone. The whole theory of modern education is radically unsound. Fortunately in England, at any rate, education produces no effect whatsoever. If it did, it would prove a serious danger to the upper classes, and probably lead to acts of violence in Grosvenor Square."
                        Lady Bracknell The importance of Being Earnest

                        Comment

                        • Bryn
                          Banned
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 24688

                          Originally posted by LHC View Post
                          Thomas Cook has debts of nearly £2bn, and had already had an injunction of £300m a few months ago. £200m would have kept it going for a couple of months, at which point it would have failed again. It would have needed much more money to address its failing business model and start to reduce its debts. The suggestion that £200m would have saved TC and its workers’ jobs is wrong.
                          I take it the "injunction" was either a typo or an auto-correct failure for "injection".

                          Comment

                          • Richard Barrett
                            Guest
                            • Jan 2016
                            • 6259

                            Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                            but when I hear talk about this from many on the "left" it's always assumed that the "workers" are in the employment of the nasty "bosses"
                            maybe it IS time for a rethink of how things work on a more fundamental level?
                            Most people indeed have to sell their labour in order to survive, to the profit of the "nasty bosses". That isn't an assumption, it's a well established fact. Of course all those relationships need to be rethought. There is already less work to do than there used to be, and there will be a lot less in the future, but employment/unemployment is used increasingly ruthlessly as a way to control people's lives as wealth is concentrated in an ever smaller proportion of the population. The universal basic income concept is only a start.

                            Comment

                            • LHC
                              Full Member
                              • Jan 2011
                              • 1556

                              Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                              I take it the "injunction" was either a typo or an auto-correct failure for "injection".
                              Autocorrect and now corrected.
                              "I do not approve of anything that tampers with natural ignorance. Ignorance is like a delicate exotic fruit; touch it and the bloom is gone. The whole theory of modern education is radically unsound. Fortunately in England, at any rate, education produces no effect whatsoever. If it did, it would prove a serious danger to the upper classes, and probably lead to acts of violence in Grosvenor Square."
                              Lady Bracknell The importance of Being Earnest

                              Comment

                              • Dave2002
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 18009

                                Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post
                                That might depend on how many thousands of employees you give jobs to.
                                Symphony of ten thousand perhaps!

                                Comment

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