The Dictatorship of the Etonariat

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  • Bryn
    Banned
    • Mar 2007
    • 24688

    #46
    My point, as I believe I clearly expressed it, is that the marginally greater minority of the electorate who voted to leave cannot be legitimately held to represent the 'will of the people', as is commonly asserted.

    Comment

    • Boilk
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 976

      #47
      The true will of the people for me is more than 50% of the eligible electorate placing their cross in the same box. But we rarely get that even with governments.

      To obtain the will of the people on Leave vs. Remain, voting in a 2nd referendum might have to be made legally mandatory.

      Comment

      • Demetrius
        Full Member
        • Sep 2011
        • 276

        #48
        The thing is that the "will of the people", a straight-forward, no holds-barred direct democracy, is a bad thing. The UK, just as basically every state in the western world, is a representative democracy (with some monarchic icing on top so that the gossip papers get to fill their pages). Build on democratic principles yes, but no dictatorship of the majority. The first referendum was a bad, bad idea, asking for a straight up or down vote on an almost infinitely complex issue. Even if the second referendum may be an answer to get the UK out of the mess they/you are in right now (not that the Brexiteers would go away, this issue would then dominate your political debate for decades), it would still be a bad idea.

        Shutting down parliament when you don't like what it may do has a few precedents ... Charles I, Cromwell, James II ... the good old days of peace and stability in extremely united times, I suppose.

        Comment

        • LMcD
          Full Member
          • Sep 2017
          • 8409

          #49
          Originally posted by gurnemanz View Post
          Unelected man demands unelected woman suspends elected parliament.
          Probably at the behest of unelected Special Advisor.

          Comment

          • Stunsworth
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 1553

            #50
            Originally posted by Bella Kemp
            I'm reminded of The Simpsons when Homer Simpson, watching the News, said, 'Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em all out.'
            Originally said by Abbot Artaud Amalric During the suppression of the Cathars in 13th century. Homer was obviously a well read man.
            Steve

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            • Richard Barrett
              Guest
              • Jan 2016
              • 6259

              #51
              Originally posted by Stunsworth View Post
              Originally said by Abbot Artaud Amalric During the suppression of the Cathars in 13th century.
              I was thinking that too.

              One of the ways in which the current discourse gets stultified is that words like "democracy" and the "will of the people" get bandied around as if their meaning was obvious and agreed upon.

              Comment

              • MrGongGong
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 18357

                #52
                Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post

                One of the ways in which the current discourse gets stultified is that words like "democracy" and the "will of the people" get bandied around as if their meaning was obvious and agreed upon.


                A bit like the word "music" in the NPME (in England)

                Under the "prevent" strategy you can get picked up by the rozzers and locked up for arguing against "democracy".


                The UK Government defines extremism as vocal or active opposition to fundamental British values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and beliefs.
                Includes all aspects of University governance, committees, legal services including data protection, freedom of information and risk management.

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                • Conchis
                  Banned
                  • Jun 2014
                  • 2396

                  #53
                  This thread- the keynote of which is defined by the initial posting - is stuffed full of impotent middle-class liberal anger.

                  Comment

                  • Stunsworth
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 1553

                    #54
                    Originally posted by Conchis View Post
                    This thread- the keynote of which is defined by the initial posting - is stuffed full of impotent middle-class liberal anger.
                    Well, I'd agree that there's a sense of hopelessness (in this person at least). Things are happening that we appear to have no control over. What's now being offered will have severe consequences for the part of the UK I live in, bears no relationship to what was offered before the referendum, and there's nothing anyone appears to be able to do about it.
                    Steve

                    Comment

                    • Beresford
                      Full Member
                      • Apr 2012
                      • 555

                      #55
                      You have to admire French irony - France Musique played "Land of Hope and Glory" this morning.

                      Comment

                      • LMcD
                        Full Member
                        • Sep 2017
                        • 8409

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Beresford View Post
                        You have to admire French irony - France Musique played "Land of Hope and Glory" this morning.
                        ... to which, I guess, one could sing the words 'Never Trust A Tory' especially if, like me, you're one of those dreadful angry middle-class liberals referred to above.

                        Comment

                        • Richard Barrett
                          Guest
                          • Jan 2016
                          • 6259

                          #57
                          Gosh, I've been accused of many heinous things but "liberal" is a first.

                          edit: There seems to be a widely held opinion that discussing politics is somehow "bad form". It's no wonder therefore that so many people get so little practise in discussing it that they seemingly aren't able to do so in a rational and articulate way. That's also IMO one of the phenomena leading directly towards the current crisis. anyway, I'm just going to register here that I have strong feelings on the issue at hand and leave it at that, and continue talking about it elsewhere. This thread will no doubt be closed down fairly soon anyway! (and what does that imply?)

                          Comment

                          • BBMmk2
                            Late Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 20908

                            #58
                            What happened to the no politics policy?
                            Don’t cry for me
                            I go where music was born

                            J S Bach 1685-1750

                            Comment

                            • Richard Barrett
                              Guest
                              • Jan 2016
                              • 6259

                              #59
                              See what I mean?

                              Comment

                              • cloughie
                                Full Member
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 22115

                                #60
                                Originally posted by Beresford View Post
                                You have to admire French irony - France Musique played "Land of Hope and Glory" this morning.
                                ...but you wouldn’t bat an eyelid if R3 played La Marseillaise!

                                Comment

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